On 1/1/2020 11:00 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:


On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 12:47:52 PM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote:



    On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 11:10:51 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift
    wrote:



        On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 9:26:01 AM UTC-6, Alan
        Grayson wrote:



            On Wednesday, January 1, 2020 at 1:54:36 AM UTC-7, Philip
            Thrift wrote:



                This could be the case:

                For every formal IUT (infinite universe theory) there
                is a formal FUT (finite universe theory - there is no
                infinite entity in the theory) - that is just as good
                in matching up to all observations.

                What has to 'give' is this:


            *Well, the denial that the universe is closed and
            spherical. AG *


                We can *never, ever know* which one corresponds to
                reality.

                @philipthrift



        One can have a finite universe theory with a finite space
        metric as a function of time where the distribution of  matter
        does not take a 'spherical' shape. I.e.: A theory where metric
        as a function of time does not have to be the same everywhere
        and everywhen, and new matter could appear over time.

        @philipthrift


    It's "spherical", like the Earth, with hills and valleys,
    mountains and canyons. I'm not referring to a perfect sphere. AG


In the not-too-distant past, I've had this discussion with Brent. He claimed, IIRC, that the universe could have begun infinite in spatial extent. But the usual models have it starting as very small. I would like his input in this matter. AG

It could have begun infinite, while the part visible to us is now was then very small.

Brent

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