> On 29 Jan 2020, at 01:12, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 1/28/2020 8:10 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> Aristotle: Reality is what we see. >> Plato: what we see might be the shadow of a simpler reality (mathematical, >> musical, theological, …). >> >> Science is really born from that important platonic doubt. > > Nonsense. Religious mysticism was born from platonic doubt. Science was > already born in the school of Thales of Miletus.
Science and mysticism hang well together. I use Plato for his ideas, which are born two hundred years before Plato with Pythagorus, and led to many mathematics, like with Thales. I don’t discuss people and history, bu the ideas behind and their relations. I search what is true, naïvely enough. > Aristotle at least believed that observation was a source of knowledg; But that has never work, and with mechanism we get an explanation of why that cannot work. We can only measure numbers, and extrapolate possible number relation, with varied degrees of complexity, among them. > while platonists depreacted it as illusory shadows of reality. They ask the question, and discuss. What if they were true? They are consistent with the facts though. QM does support more mechanism than materialism which needs a brain-mind identity thesis which makes no sense, and again provably so if we assume Digital Mechanism. > St Agustine made Platonism Christian He made the christian saving a bit of Platonism, making them less false that some non christians. There is a bit of truth in each position: the difficulty it to get the coherent whole, and this without throwing the first person (consciousness, knowledge) under the rug. > and Thomas Aquinas made Aristotleanism Christian, Leading to the inconsistency, unless assuming a very weird non mechanist theory of mind that nobody has seen. > and those two, with the power of the Church behind them dominated Western > intellectual thought for nine centuries, known as "The Dark Ages" for a good > reason. The reason of the Dark Age is that the Church has separated theology from science. It is a trick by con men to get power by introducing religion in the state. The rational theologian have been persecuted ever since, and today a certain form of atheism pursue that work, and defend their faith in an ontologically primitive physical universe, without argument, nor dialog. You just can't have Mechanism (Descartes, Darwin, Turing, …) and Materialism together. You have to chose your favorite poison (to talk like Maudlin). Bruno > > Brent > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/95a18b3e-252b-6593-f36d-ea372c3586a5%40verizon.net. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/75B7ECF8-9C93-471F-928F-563A6DACF2B2%40ulb.ac.be.
