On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 3:21:03 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 4:59:39 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> I believe the Roman army was well paid, had a prestigious status in >> society, and had superior tactics in battle, using superior weapons, and >> perhaps most important was able to fight as a unit. But as Rome expanded it >> didn't do a great job in assimilating "the barbarians". Over time they >> became incorporated in the Roman army, acquired its weapons, and perhaps >> most important learned its tactical methods for fighting as a unit. Thus, >> over time, the Roman army lost its advantage, which led to the demise of >> the Empire. How correct is my thesis? TIA, AG >> > > There are a number of reasons the Roman Empire fell. I think probably the > biggest reason is with the establishment of Christianity as the state > religion of the empire, the cultural paradigm of the empire became > irrelevant. The Orphic cultural and mystical basis of the classical world > from the time of Homer through the philosophy of Plotinus was largely > abandoned. This left the culture without strong roots, and the new > Christian civilization and power based on the Vatican rendered the empire > of little importance. >
You make many excellent points in this post, but what seems vague, to me at least, is the role of classical world culture in giving the Empire a mission and reason for existence. AG > > The coins or denominations of the Roman Denarius were in the Republic and > early Empire periods forged in gold and silver. This began to change as the > Roman gold mines in Spain and elsewhere began to deplete out. Then > eventually the silver mines became less productive, and the coins were made > in copper and even more base metals. The Romans did not develop new mining > techniques and the Roman money became less valuable. This lead to problems > with debasement and inflation that by the 4th century went rampant. This > weakened the empire. > > The barbarians were not really that numerous. The waves of invasions from > 410 to 476 of Visigoths and Ostrogoths involved at most a few 10 thousands. > The Roman legions were far better disciplined and could have handled this. > The problem was there was rampant corruption. In fact the reason for the > upheaval with the Goths along the Danube was due to corruption, and this > lead to the defeat of the Eastern Roman legions and the death of the E. > Emperor Valens at Adrianople in 398 or so. The E. Roman Empire paid the > Goths off to "Go West Young Men," and so they directed themselves there. > Still the problem could have been managed, but corruption has lead to a > defeat of moral in the legions. Pay to soldiers, the term salary (root word > sal = salt) came from the payment of Roman soldiers, had been withheld. The > Roman legions were firmed up by Stilicho, and corruption abated for a > while, but the die were cast. The simple fact is the legions largely let > the Goths in. The only barbarian group they rallied against were the Huns > under Attila, where the Goths were enlisted as allies. > > Finally, with the end of the empire it might have been possible for > civilization to continue, but it broke down because in effect the stage > coaches ended. On the Roman roads were stations with stabled horses that > were cycled out and there was a constant traffic of coaches, wagons etc > that kept people and goods moving. That ended, which broke Europe up not > only just politically but economically and culturally. > > Of course remember, the Eastern Roman Empire, later termed the Byzantine > Empire, continued well enough. In fact under Justinian the Eastern Roman > Empire reasserted itself in Rome and much of Italy in the 6th century. This > did not last terribly long. The other hammer blow to western civilization > was the Islamic sweep that crimped Byzantium and cut Europe from the middle > east and north Africa. > > LC > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c5fd61b6-2a5b-4376-8e02-b3c82eef3fa7%40googlegroups.com.
