On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 3:42:49 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>
> On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 4:32:05 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>
>> On Friday, May 22, 2020 at 8:30:10 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 11:18:15 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 6:26:08 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You cannot of course circumnavigate the spatial manifold of the
>>>>> universe. Anything beyond the cosmological horizon moves away faster than
>>>>> you can ever catch up. It is a bit like the part in the movie The Shining
>>>>> with Jack Nicholson where the hotel hallway expanded faster than he could
>>>>> run. If we could though observe this, say analogous to Jack Nicholson in
>>>>> the film, there would be optical effects. The spatial manifold could be a
>>>>> k
>>>>> = 1 closed or k = -1 hyperbolic or the dodecahedral tessellated universe
>>>>> of
>>>>> Poincaré. Yet so far data is not forthcoming.
>>>>>
>>>>> A Planck energy of quanta, say a UV graviton, could have causal
>>>>> influence on us is it expands to the cosmological horizon or near so. The
>>>>> B-modes of inflation, which are still being pursued, represent Planck
>>>>> units
>>>>> redshifted to some appreciable scale comparable to the cosmological
>>>>> horizon. This is a z factor z = 10^{10}ly/ℓ_p = 6.3×10^{60}, where taking
>>>>> the nat-log of this and multiplying by the horizon scale 1.3×10^{10}ly we
>>>>> get 1.8×10^{12}ly. The furthest out anything can have traversed at the
>>>>> speed of light to reach is from that distance and from the earliest near
>>>>> Planck time in the universe. What this means is the source or emitter of
>>>>> this graviton was early on close to our region and the source is not that
>>>>> incredible distance away.
>>>>>
>>>>> LC
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is this estimate reasonable, also from
>>>>
>>>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/05/19/would-a-long-journey-through-the-universe-bring-us-back-to-our-starting-point/#fe376fef6c50
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The appearance of different angular sized of fluctuations in the CMB
>>>> results in different spatial curvature scenarios. Presently, the
>>>> Universe appears to be flat, but we have only measured down to about the
>>>> 0.4% level. At a more precise level, we may discover some level of
>>>> intrinsic curvature, after all, but what we've observed is enough to tell
>>>> us that if the Universe is curved, it's only curved on scales that are
>>>> ~(250)^3 times (or more than 15 million times) larger than our
>>>> presently-observable Universe is.
>>>>
>>>> AG
>>>>
>>>
>>> What I'm asking is whether, based on current measurements, if the
>>> universe is curved, can we conclude that the universe is *15 million
>>> times larger* than our presently observable universe? TIA, AG
>>>
>>
>> Without data there is nothing we can conclude. The spatial surface of the
>> universe appears to be flat or without curvature that is 300 or so larger
>> than the cosmological horizon distance.
>>
>
But the comment in the article I posted claims the unobservable universe is *at
least 15 million times larger than the observable universe!* That's the
estimate I am asking about. Is it unfounded based on the available date? AG
That is about 4 trillion light years, or about 2 times the possible
>> distance any causal connection from inflation could reach us, Beyond that
>> we know absolutely nothing. Unless some sensitive optical work is done with
>> CMB imaging that can push this further we may never know.
>>
>> In the end physics and observable cosmology is local, and we are
>> approaching certain limits due to our locality as observers. If we measure
>> much further out and closer to inflation and the initial quantum event we
>> will only push out about 1.8 trillion light years. It is unclear if any ray
>> tracing measurement of gravitons or neutrinos from this earliest moment of
>> the observable universe.
>>
>> LC
>>
>
> I watched the following a few days ago that is related to this topic.
>
> LC
>
> https://youtu.be/e1dOnqCu9pQ
>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8dfd8cb7-35ee-4698-8fa3-a59fa44d24ac%40googlegroups.com.
