On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 7:53:04 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote:
>
>
>
> On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 3:42:49 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 4:32:05 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>>
>>> On Friday, May 22, 2020 at 8:30:10 PM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 11:18:15 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 6:26:08 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You cannot of course circumnavigate the spatial manifold of the
>>>>>> universe. Anything beyond the cosmological horizon moves away faster
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> you can ever catch up. It is a bit like the part in the movie The
>>>>>> Shining
>>>>>> with Jack Nicholson where the hotel hallway expanded faster than he
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> run. If we could though observe this, say analogous to Jack Nicholson in
>>>>>> the film, there would be optical effects. The spatial manifold could be
>>>>>> a k
>>>>>> = 1 closed or k = -1 hyperbolic or the dodecahedral tessellated universe
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> Poincaré. Yet so far data is not forthcoming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Planck energy of quanta, say a UV graviton, could have causal
>>>>>> influence on us is it expands to the cosmological horizon or near so.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> B-modes of inflation, which are still being pursued, represent Planck
>>>>>> units
>>>>>> redshifted to some appreciable scale comparable to the cosmological
>>>>>> horizon. This is a z factor z = 10^{10}ly/ℓ_p = 6.3×10^{60}, where
>>>>>> taking
>>>>>> the nat-log of this and multiplying by the horizon scale 1.3×10^{10}ly
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> get 1.8×10^{12}ly. The furthest out anything can have traversed at the
>>>>>> speed of light to reach is from that distance and from the earliest near
>>>>>> Planck time in the universe. What this means is the source or emitter of
>>>>>> this graviton was early on close to our region and the source is not
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> incredible distance away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LC
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this estimate reasonable, also from
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/05/19/would-a-long-journey-through-the-universe-bring-us-back-to-our-starting-point/#fe376fef6c50
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The appearance of different angular sized of fluctuations in the CMB
>>>>> results in different spatial curvature scenarios. Presently, the
>>>>> Universe appears to be flat, but we have only measured down to about the
>>>>> 0.4% level. At a more precise level, we may discover some level of
>>>>> intrinsic curvature, after all, but what we've observed is enough to tell
>>>>> us that if the Universe is curved, it's only curved on scales that are
>>>>> ~(250)^3 times (or more than 15 million times) larger than our
>>>>> presently-observable Universe is.
>>>>>
>>>>> AG
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I'm asking is whether, based on current measurements, if the
>>>> universe is curved, can we conclude that the universe is *15 million
>>>> times larger* than our presently observable universe? TIA, AG
>>>>
>>>
>>> Without data there is nothing we can conclude. The spatial surface of
>>> the universe appears to be flat or without curvature that is 300 or so
>>> larger than the cosmological horizon distance.
>>>
>>
> But the comment in the article I posted claims the unobservable universe
> is *at least 15 million times larger than the observable universe!* That's
> the estimate I am asking about. Is it unfounded based on the available
> date? AG
>
It must be a reference volume for cube root of 15 million is 246.6. That is
about what I state here.
LC
>
> That is about 4 trillion light years, or about 2 times the possible
>>> distance any causal connection from inflation could reach us, Beyond that
>>> we know absolutely nothing. Unless some sensitive optical work is done with
>>> CMB imaging that can push this further we may never know.
>>>
>>> In the end physics and observable cosmology is local, and we are
>>> approaching certain limits due to our locality as observers. If we measure
>>> much further out and closer to inflation and the initial quantum event we
>>> will only push out about 1.8 trillion light years. It is unclear if any ray
>>> tracing measurement of gravitons or neutrinos from this earliest moment of
>>> the observable universe.
>>>
>>> LC
>>>
>>
>> I watched the following a few days ago that is related to this topic.
>>
>> LC
>>
>> https://youtu.be/e1dOnqCu9pQ
>>
>
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/0285bd1b-9e8e-4e49-bb1a-81c5468b08dd%40googlegroups.com.
