On Monday, September 7, 2020 at 9:06:21 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote: > On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 8:02 AM Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > *The Bell inequality means that if we assume reality, which is there >> is some existential basis for observables prior to a measurement, then we >> have nonlocality.* >> > You could still have locality if things were SUPER-deterministic, but > that's the only way you could have Reality, Locality and Determinism. And > regular determinism won't work because that just means the present state Is > determined by the previous one, you need SUPER-determinism which means > the universe had to start out in one and only one SUPER specific state > 13.8 billion years ago. I think it would be nice to have Reality, Locality > and Determinism but SUPER-determinism is far far too high a price to pay > for having all 3. I'll have to settle for Reality. > > John K Clark >
Much of this issue of superdeterminism is an interest in having local hidden variables. In the Wigner set up, observers and their friends,, it is natural to assume there is a joint probability for all four measurements of Alice-Bob and Charlie-Debbie. Following reasoning with local hidden variables correlations must obey Bell inequalities. One of the Bell inequalities, two measurement settings per party and binary outcomes, is violated in a six-photon experiment [Proietti, M. et al. Sci. Adv. 5, 9832 (2019]. This supports the conclusion no joint probability exists, which means superobserver's and the friend's data are fundamentally inconsistent. In this setting we can have a superdeterminism, but nobody can agree on anything. Superdeterminism just means there is a causal set that is unitary for such local variables, but the locality requirement means there is no consistency between the data observers report. This is of course not a way we would ordinarily choose to actually measure things, so we loosen the locality requirement and the Bell inequality violations are consistent with nonlocality. Superdeterminism is not that super; if to compare to superheroes it is less superman and maybe more antman. LC -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/772ff757-bce4-4015-b4f2-18dabde786b5n%40googlegroups.com.
