> On 26 Jan 2021, at 12:39 pm, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 1:23:07 PM UTC-7 Brent wrote: > > > On 1/25/2021 5:39 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> On Wednesday, January 20, 2021 at 12:59:02 PM UTC-7 Brent wrote: >> >> >> On 1/20/2021 3:58 AM, John Clark wrote: >>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 12:01 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected] <>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >> No, there are NOT exactly 10 winners! There are an astronomical number >>> >> to an astronomical power number horses that won that race with only a >>> >> submicroscopic difference between them, and there are also an >>> >> astronomical number to an astronomical power number of Alan Graysons >>> >> that won his bet on that race. >>> >>> > So instead of all possible outcomes being measured in some other world, >>> >>> Except for its simplicity the most important advantage of many worlds is >>> that it doesn't have to explain what "measured" means, or what a "observer" >>> means, or what a "choice" means because in many worlds ANY physical change >>> of any sort causes the Universe to split. >> >> That sounds like a bug not a feature. Does every C14 decay in your body >> instantiate a different world? Every photon that's absorbed by that >> chlorophyll molecule instead of that other molecule? As Bruno says, "World" >> and "Universe" become hard to define. If you say "This universe." does it >> mean anything, even for a moment? But it you can't give meaning to "This" >> how can you make sense of an experiment in which "This" evolves into "That"? >> You need some way to talk about the quasi-classical world, because as Bohr >> noted, that's where we live and that's where science predicts things. >> >> Brent >> >> Now you know why I call the MWI "Trump Physics". Its advocates will never >> admit it's woefully wrong, like our hopefully departed "leader" who never >> admits a mistake. Another example of this utter foolishness; note the >> numerous worlds created by ants which move along in repeated zig-zags. AG > > I think you get entirely too worked up over it. > > Do you believe Trump won by a landslide? Do lies matter? Does the MWI help > us understand physical reality? Is the alleged cure (of QM) worse than the > disease? AG
Oh come on. MWI is not a “lie”, even if it’s wrong. It’s a physical theory - or interpretation if you prefer. Certainly some people get passionately attached to their pet theories, but we’re not talking about religions here. As I’ve said before, I’m not an MWI “supporter” as if it were a football team. I just want to know the truth of how the world actually works. And I would be happy to drop MWI if there was an argument against it I found intellectually compelling. Emotionally speaking, I’d *like* to do that, because I find the idea of all those variants of myself unpleasant. But you certainly haven’t persuaded me that you have that argument. Ridiculous stories like the zig-zagging ants only reveal that you are the one with wool in his ears here. Have you not grasped yet that the ants don’t “create” the worlds any more than humans do? This has been explained many times.The ants are simply part of the branching structure of the multiverse, and the branches are not generated by the ants: they occur at the subatomic level far below ant or human cognition. Neither ants nor any other creatures are granted god-like powers here. And calling a physical theory “Trumpian” is just trolling. > We have a theory that has a huge domain of application. Is predictive and > extremely accurate. The only problem is the interpretation of the processes > described by the mathematics. Interpretations are not theories. They are > not right or wrong, because they can't be tested. W.V.O. Quine contributed > to this confusion by saying that ontology was the set of entities presupposed > by our best theory. That's a philosopher's view. I seems to make the > questions of Hilbert space or C*-algebra, discrete or continuous, Turing > computable or not, into important questions of what really, really exists. > That's the wrong attitude. It's the error of the misplaced concrete. > Feynmann had it right when he said,"Every good physicists knows five > different ways to express the same physics in mathematics." The function of > interpretations is to suggest better theories. Better theories are ones with > bigger domains and more accurate predictions. First we get better knowledge > of facts; then we can worry about the ontology later. That's why I say > epistemology precedes ontology. > > Everett saw that there was a gap in QM. Measurement wasn't really given a > physical description. The collapse of the wave function was just stuck in by > hand. So he tried to fill it in. This led to the study of decoherence and a > better theory of measurement. It provides some definition of the Heisenberg > cut. I think it still leaves a small gap. MWI advocates think it's > complete. But it's an interpretation...it's not true or false. What will > lead to unification with gravity and spacetime is the interesting question. > > BrentI > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/xsl8cSDT4M8/unsubscribe > <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/everything-list/xsl8cSDT4M8/unsubscribe>. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b6b9b37d-ae11-4d4b-a1f7-1622f5f993a1n%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b6b9b37d-ae11-4d4b-a1f7-1622f5f993a1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/464B8EB8-1445-4649-AD78-93E8550DC82C%40gmail.com.
