On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 at 21:51, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 9:31 PM Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 at 20:29, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 7:50 PM Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 at 19:35, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 6:51 PM Stathis Papaioannou < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 at 18:12, Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 5:50 PM Stathis Papaioannou < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 21 Dec 2021 at 15:55, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/20/2021 6:13 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The probabilities come from the fact that observers consider >>>>>>>>> themselves unique individuals persisting through time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But that doesn't imply any kind of probability unless they regard >>>>>>>>> themselves as the one member of an ensemble that is unique, e.g. the >>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>> that really exists or the one that's really me. Otherwise they are >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> like the duplicate Captain Kirks. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Each copy does indeed feel as if they are the one true continuation >>>>>>>> of the original even though they know that they are not, because that >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> the nature of first person experience. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You still need to introduce an independent notion of probability >>>>>>> because each member must consider himself to be a random selection from >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> ensemble. The notion of a random selection cannot be defined without >>>>>>> reference to some prior notion of probability. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, but you don't need any specific theory about how your identity >>>>>> moves from one body into the next. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You just need some credible evidence that such a notion even begins to >>>>> make sense. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It makes sense that I feel myself to be a unique individual persisting >>>> through time, because everyone understands what it means. Some people try >>>> to come up with theories based on this feeling, such as the existence of an >>>> immaterial soul, but that doesn’t follow. My feeling that I am a unique >>>> individual persisting through time stands independently of whatever entity >>>> or gives rise to this feeling. >>>> >>> >>> I don't know where you think you are going with this. Continuation of >>> personal identity through time was not what we were talking about. >>> Persistence through time does not involve self-locating uncertainty from an >>> ensemble at a point in time. >>> >> >> If one version of me will see the atom decay and the other version of me >> will not see the atom decay, there is a 1/2 chance that I will see the atom >> decay, because of the symmetry of the situation and because I feel myself >> to be a unique individual persisting through time, even though I might know >> the objective details of what is occurring. >> > > I don't see how persistence through time has any bearing on the > probability. If there is a split, then the probability that you will see > one or the other result depends on the magnitudes of the wave function for > the branches. That is the Born rule, and it is an independent assumption, > as is the fact that there is a probability interpretation at all. > Self-locating uncertainty only gives you a measure of the probability if > the number of branches with each outcome matches the Born probabilities. > Under MWI every outcome happens, so the probability of each outcome is 1. How do you justify calculating probabilities for outcomes that are less than 1? > -- Stathis Papaioannou -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAH%3D2ypWP05dwTNT3CQOjYJdAT-56tvj-HxO9yehte56U9MtsCA%40mail.gmail.com.
