On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 9:41:24 AM UTC-6 Jason wrote:
> > > On Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 11:27 AM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 3:03:49 AM UTC-6 smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: >> >>> On 23-04-2022 04:38, Jason Resch wrote: >>> > Artificial Life such as these organisms: >>> > >>> > >>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq_mdJjNRPT11IF4NFyLcIWJ1C0Z3hTAX >>> > >>> > ( https://github.com/jasonkresch/bots ) >>> > >>> > Have neural networks that evolved through natural selection, can adapt >>> > to a changing environment, and can learn to distinguish between "food" >>> > and "poison" in their environment. >>> > >>> > If simple creatures like worms or insects are conscious, (because they >>> > have brains, and evolved), then wouldn't these artificial life forms >>> > be conscious for the same reasons? >>> > >>> > Why or why not? >>> > >>> >>> Yes. If states of consciousness are identified with algorithms, then the >>> world as viewed from the point of view of a particular worm is defined >>> by that particular algorithm that the worm's brain is implementing. If >>> you run that same algorithm also in a simulation, then that same >>> consciousness exists both in the simulation as a simulated worm and in >>> the real world as a real worm. The consciousness cannot locate itself in >>> one or the other situation, as it is identical in both situations. >>> >>> Saibal >> >> >> This, of course, is nonsense. The question you should ask yourself is, >> How can anything know anything? AG >> > > > I disagree with your assessment that what Saibal said was nonsense, > however I agree with you that the real question of consciousness is: > > "What is a knower?" > > What properties must a system posses to know something? I don't have an > answer but I have some ideas. I'm interested to hear your or other's take > on these: > > *Consciousness is:* > > - Awareness of Information > - A knowledge State > - An Infinite Class (infinite possible variations and permutations, > configurations) > - A requirement for: Experience, Thought, Feeling, Knowing, Seeing, > Noticing (can any of these things exist absent consciousness? E.g. some > part of system that acts like it knows must really know.) > - An activity (not a passive state of 0s and 1s, > operations/behavior/actions give meaning and context to information and > how > it is processed and what it means) > - Is it a recursive relationship? A model of environment including > self? > - Is it undefinable? > - Word origin: "con" (together/with/unified/united) "scious" > (knowledge): unified knowledge > - It exists in the abstract informational state, not in the material > - A meaningful interpretation of information > > *Information is:* > > - A difference that makes a difference > - A comparison, differentiation, distinction > - Specification / Indication > - Negative entropy > - A decrease in uncertainty > - A probability of being in different states > - Bits, digits, a number (representations of information) > - A subspace of a larger space > - A state of a finite state machine > - Requires an interpreter (A system to be informed) to be meaningful > > *A subject is:* > > - A system to be informed > - A processor of information > - A knower (a believer) > - An inside viewer > - A first-person > - A possessor of knowledge > - An interpreter of information > - A modeler of environment or self (or both) > > *Knowledge is:* > > - An apprehended truth > - A true belief (bet) > - Not always shareable (when self-referential) > - A relationship between two objects or object and itself > > > Jason > I've encounted "the Knower". If you grant it must be *awesome*, it can't resemble, even remotely, any algorithm. You have to look elsewhere, within. AG -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/56e26819-2e2b-4e2f-883f-fa89d60c34f8n%40googlegroups.com.
