Hi Jesse, excellent points! Replies inline below. On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 3:14 PM Jesse Mazer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 12:26 AM Giulio Prisco <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> In Chapter 8 I argued that the cosmic operating system is not less >> than personal, but more than personal. If the cosmic operating system >> is super alive, super conscious and super intelligent, then cosmic >> operating system = God. > > > Hi Giulio, just wondering, do you think of this cosmic operating system as > something that exists at present, or is it more like an Omega Point style > idea (without Tipler's specific assumptions about physics/religion) that > intelligence will find a way to persist in performing computations and > storing records forever, so that "God" can be identified with the infinite > limit? One could also speculate that this infinite future in some sense > retroactively influences or defines the probabilities of various possible > histories leading up to it, whether via something like simulation hypothesis, > or certain views on the interpretation of quantum mechanics like Wheeler's > participatory universe or the Bousso/Susskind paper at > https://arxiv.org/abs/1105.3796 > >>
I see the cosmic operating system operating above time as we conceive of it, so if something exists at all then it exists also at all times. The cosmic operating system exists and acts above time, but from our in-time perspective we can think that it "will exist" in the future and retroactively influences the past. The simulation hypothesis is not necessary if the cosmic operating system itself is a superintelligent Mind, but it is still a simple and useful metaphor. >> >> You have it easier than me! I don't think that everything evolves in a >> reversible deterministic way (not in the Laplacian sense at least, see >> chapters on libertarian determinism and Gödel), so building hope is >> more difficult for me. But I've done it! > > > Is the objection to Laplacian determinism specifically about the paradoxes > that arise when a physical system in the universe tries to predict events in > its own causal future (the sort of issue discussed at > https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10670-020-00369-3 )? Or do you > have objections that would apply even to the idea that we (or future Omega > Point style intelligences) could retroactively verify that any given finite > section of our past history unfolded in a way that perfectly obeyed > deterministic laws acting on initial boundary conditions? > Both. All in my book draft. If there are multiple intersecting timelines (which by itself negates Laplacian determinism), then perfect retrodiction is as impossible as perfect prediction. > Jesse > > > > >> >> >> <I believe that if someday we build a Jupiter brain [-> God]...> >> >> What if some alien civilization has already done so? >> >> <...so far it's just a theory, or maybe a theory for a theory. > >> >> Like everything! >> >> <[If technological resurrection needs a perfect copy of a quantum >> state] you'd become a different person many trillions of times every >> second...> >> >> This contradicts what you just said about deterministic evolution. The >> quantum state (of you + the environment) evolves deterministically and >> contains all those changes. But we agree that technological >> resurrection does not need a perfect copy of a quantum state. >> >> On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 4:39 PM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Giulio Prisco wrote on >> > https://www.turingchurch.com/p/irrational-mechanics-draft-ch-14 >> > >> >> >"I’ve been talking of the ultimate God (the cosmic operating system, aka >> >> >Mind at Large" [...] The cosmic operating system is alive and aware, or >> >> >better super alive and super aware, and computes above and beyond what >> >> >we call time. >> > >> > >> > >> > I like your term "cosmic operating system", but I think it's a mistake to >> > equate that to the traditional concept of God. The Cosmic Operating System >> > is not a person or even a super person, it need not be conscious or >> > intelligent and it might operate the universe but not have created the >> > universe. The existence of the universe might turn out to be a logical >> > necessity because "nothingness" is unstable. >> > >> > >> >> > "We need, or at least I need, a concept of life after death that is >> >> > solid enough to suspend disbelief. Without such a concept of life after >> >> > death I would fall into the deepest state of paralyzing despair, and >> >> > jump off the closest window to exit this unpleasant game but God is not >> >> > enough". >> > >> > >> > >> > As far as life after death is concerned, the idea of an invisible man in >> > the sky does not give me any comfort or hope, especially not a God as >> > unpleasant as the Christian or Muslim God. The existence of God is not >> > necessary or sufficient for life after death, but the fact that quantum >> > mechanics says information cannot be destroyed because everything evolves >> > according to the Schrodinger equation in a reversible deterministic way is >> > a little more interesting; of course quantum mechanics could turn out to >> > be wrong about that but I sorta doubt it, so it gives me a little hope. >> > Not a lot but a little. That's why I'm going to have my brain frozen to >> > liquid nitrogen temperatures when I die. I want the information that makes >> > me be me be scrambled as little as possible. I want to make it as easy as >> > I can for your cosmic operating system. >> >> >> >> > "and penultimate God-like cosmic engineers" >> > >> > I don't think such cosmic engineers exist in the observable universe… at >> > least not yet. I believe that if someday we build a Jupiter brain and >> > then ask it "does God exist?" His reply will be "He does now". >> >> >> >> > "I guess there is a high degree of entanglement between persons who >> >> > love the same people, do the same things, or have similar thoughts and >> >> > feelings, >> > >> > Quantum entanglement is a real thing and there is even a theory that the >> > geometry of spacetime is the product of the quantum entanglement of >> > information and there's some sort of correlation between spatial distance >> > and entanglement, but so far it's just a theory, or maybe a theory for a >> > theory. >> >> >> >> > and that entanglement propagates in time. >> > >> > Your sort of entanglement and quantum entanglement do have that in >> > common. >> >> >> >> > "I don’t think technological resurrection needs a perfect copy of a >> >> > quantum state." >> > >> > I think that is a virtual certainty, otherwise you'd become a different >> > person many trillions of times every second, every time an air molecule >> > bumped into you and changed the quantum state of your body. >> > >> > >> > John K Clark >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> > email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv3Z11nzySH6wg4ZE2UX%2BtFpExox0W60%3DG3W%2BwpkEAg3GQ%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAKTCJydZV3-u_j916zKh%2BTOKs7NRScoyeUB5M%3DEFN6j6Dh3YGA%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAPCWU3KsVuAEh5MGkZvj1h3JAkzpwD324mivGMW0-AMFf%3DHP7A%40mail.gmail.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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