On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 9:06 AM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 8:56 AM Terren Suydam <[email protected]> > wrote: > > *> I haven't read his apology, but in general a sufficiently weak apology >> is evidence that one is just trying to make the right noises required to >> make the problem go away.* > > > *I don't understand why people even bother to apologize for a casual > remark they made 30 years ago because it never does any good. Even if they > got on their knees and tore their eyes out they would not be uncancelled. > Murder can be forgiven but uttering a politically incorrect word never can > be. * > > I wouldn't characterize that email as a "casual remark". He was trying to make a point about being provocative, and boy did he make it. For anyone interested, here's his actual apology <https://nickbostrom.com/oldemail.pdf> which contains the original email, and for what it's worth, I think it's a decent apology, but probably not enough. Good apologies are about accountability. They consider and own the hurt caused and this apology does not. (I should note that his use of the n-word was not the casual conversational usage implied by articles like the one Russell linked to, but rather used as a part of an "example sentence". I should have read it before posting. Regardless, it was really poor judgment for him to use it the way he did, but ok. It's not necessarily the utterance of one who uses the term casually.) Back to the apology, beyond not owning how it may have hurt people, it doesn't do much to address his current beliefs around what I consider to be the most offensive part of the email: ... Take for example the following sentence: Blacks are more stupid than whites. > *I like that sentence and think it is true*. [emphasis mine]... > Here's the rub: *Does he still think it is true?* That is a categorically racist thing to say and believe. Here are the relevant parts of his apology that purport to address it: [the email] does not accurately represent my views, then or now. > ... I also think that it is deeply unfair that unequal access to > education, nutrients, and basic > healthcare leads to inequality in social outcomes, including sometimes > disparities in skills and cognitive > capacity. This is a huge moral travesty that we should not paper over or > downplay. Are there any genetic contributors to differences between groups in > cognitive abilities? It is not my > area of expertise, and I don’t have any particular interest in the > question. > To me, he seems to be going out of his way to avoid addressing the heart of the matter - does he still hold that belief? Here's what I think he should have said - I would have thought it brave and honorable to offer a more nuanced, intellectually honest take, something like: "as one who believes that we should not be afraid to face what science and data tell us, and not be afraid to talk about facts even when they're politically dangerous, I think we should be able to acknowledge that different groups of people have different genetic predispositions. It would be very strange if that were not true! Every group is going to have some attributes that are above average and some that are below average, relative to the whole of humanity. Does that mean one group is *better* or *superior* to another? Absolutely not! The difficulty lies in that we may be forced to confront these uncomfortable differences on occasion. My email was a clear example of how not to do that." Also, I don't believe him when he says "I don’t have any particular interest in the question". That comes off as disingenuous, especially given his baffling trip down a rabbit hole on eugenics and genetic enhancement, which comprises at least half of the total apology. It appears to be some kind of an attempt at nuance and intellectual honesty but it's irrelevant to the issue at hand. It comes off as a defensive attempt to firewall future attacks on other controversial positions he holds. Wokeism sucks, I'm sure we can all agree, but we shouldn't allow the pendulum to swing too far in the other direction and dismiss any attempt to hold people accountable, especially when their attempt to hold themselves accountable falls flat. Terren *John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis > <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* > bsf > > >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2%3DLO5i%3DQNwmQbJTtU5kM%2BB10Om3wYuEMwpKM73za8Mrg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2%3DLO5i%3DQNwmQbJTtU5kM%2BB10Om3wYuEMwpKM73za8Mrg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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