On Saturday, December 14, 2024 at 1:35:54 AM UTC-7 Alan Grayson wrote:
On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 8:48:39 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 12/13/2024 7:02 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Friday, December 13, 2024 at 7:30:31 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 12/13/2024 3:09 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
For some rest length frame parameters, there's a v, such that for
velocities greater than v, won't the car fit in all garage frames, but in
none of the car frames? If this is correct, what's the justification for
saying the solution exists in one set of frames, but not in another? And
what's the argument that in all of these frames, simultaneity of front and
back of car is satisfied? TY, AG
What could it possibly mean for the car *not to fit* in the car frame!
*Have you ever tried to park a car? Use your brains and you'll figure it
out. It's called the Lorentz Parking Paradox. You're trying to park a car
of known rest length, in a garage of known rest length. Follow me so far?
Now get the car moving and from the car's frame notice how the garage
length Lorentz contracts. Follow me so far? At some v or greater, the
length of the garage will be smaller than the car's rest length. When this
happens most sane individuals will conclude that the car won't fit. *
*OK, you meant the car will not fit in the garage, in the car's frame. *
* Brent*
*Maybe, just maybe, this apparent paradox cannot be resolved by solely
analyzing what happens in space, but in spacetime. Tomorrow I will make an
effort to fully understand your spacetime diagrams and see if they shed any
light on this issue. The clue might be the fact that in relativity, ds^2 is
frame invariant. And FWIW, I haven't seen any convincing arguments based
solely on the frame non-invariance of simultaneity. It's often claimed this
non-invariance solves the problem, but detailed proofs are woefully
lacking. AG*
*The reason a paradox seems to exist is because the frame observers witness
contrary events; the garage observer sees the car fitting in the garage,
whereas the car observer sees the car not fitting in the garage, when
there's only one possible thing to observe. AG*
*OTOH, from the garage frame, the car's length is Lorentz contracted, so
most sane individuals will conclude the car WILL fit in the garage. Thus,
an apparent paradox, or shall we say a discrency of whether or not, the car
can fit in garage, and from the pov of which frame? Final question: are you
a sane individual? These questions might be totally ill-posed. If so, with
your immensely superior intellect, I'm confident you'll be able to show us
how; and if so, THAT WILL BE THE SOLUTION! AG*
I don't even know that "the solution" means.
*It means what I wrote above. Which frame, if any, can the car be fully
contained within the garage? AG *
What was the problem to be solved;
*Read what I wrote, and better yet what other professionals write about
this apparent paradox. AG*
How to educate Alan? Simultaneity is a relation between EVENTS, not car
parts.
*I know that. Now tell me something I don't know. (Who said anything about
car parts?) AG *
Brent
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