On 1/16/2025 10:07 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Monday, January 13, 2025 at 11:54:56 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 1/13/2025 10:39 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Monday, January 13, 2025 at 11:20:05 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 1/13/2025 10:04 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Monday, January 13, 2025 at 10:21:28 PM UTC-7 Brent
Meeker wrote:
On 1/13/2025 9:02 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
Using the LT, we have the following transformations of
Length, Time, and Mass, that is,
x --->x', t ---> t', m ---> m', where the primed
quantities are the transformed values in the primed
frame, given their values in the unprimed frame. The
question is this; which of the quantities in the primed
frame are actually measured in the primed frame, and
which are appearances in the primed frame as seen by
unprimed frame?
All of them. That's why it's *relativity* theory. x
and t are measurements in one frame and x' and t' are
measurements in another frame moving *relative* to the
unprimed frame. And note the use of "measurements" not
"as seen". The two are different when you consider
things moving at a significant fraction of the speed of
light.
*But length in primed frame is contracted from the pov of
unprimed frame, but in primed frame it isn't measured as
contracted, so it APPEARS contracted from the pov of
unprimed frame*
No, it will *appear* rotated (c.f. Terrell rotation). It
will *measure* contracted (using light and clocks, as with
radar).
Brent
*Terrell rotation over my head, *
It's probably within your capability to Google it.
*but length contraction allegedly measured in primed frame
contradicts the discussion of the paradox, where car and garage
lengths aren't contracted when viewing each other. *
That doesn't even parse.
*Here the garage is in the primed frame but isn't actually
contracted. *
No object is ever contracted in it's own frame, but you haven't
said which is the primed frame, thus introducing ambiguity.
*So the LT seems to deal in appearances, not what's actually
measured in the primed or transformed frame. AG*
*I already told you that LT transforms what it measured NOT what
appears.
Brent
*
*I'm referring to the primed frame in the LT formula x --> x'. The LT
gives us the length contracted from the pov of the moving frame, of
the primed frame, but the primed frame never measures its length
contracted_._ If this is correct, isn't it reasonable and accurate to
say the LT give us appearances of what the moving frame measures, but
not what is actually measured in the stationary or primed frame? *
*Roughly speaking, yes. So long as you mean "appearance" broadly to
include what you measure, not just what you would see.'
*
*For example, on a near light speed trip to Andromeda, the distance is
hugely contracted from the pov of the traveler, what the traveler
measures, but from the pov of the stationary observer, the distance
remainS 2.5 MLY. AG
*
*Right.
Brent*
_**_
*but NOT measured in primed frame. Same with time and mass? AG *
How is this consistent, if it is, with the fact that
when doing EM measurements, E' and B' are the actual
measurements of the fields in the primed frame, given
that E and B are measured in the unprimed frame, but
the same cannot be said of some, or all of the
measurements of Length, Time, and Mass? TY,
The same applies except the electromagnetic field is a
tensor, so it transforms by tensor like a sequence of
LTs. How is that not consistent?
Brent
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