On Saturday, March 8, 2025 at 4:03:01 PM UTC-7 John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Mar 8, 2025 at 5:27 PM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote: *>> Recent events have proven that computer scientists have figured out the relationship between mind and matter well enough to be able to turn inert matter into a mind. Meanwhile Hindu gurus and Yoga adepts are doing the exact same thing they've been doing for thousands of years, contemplating their navels and making zero progress on understanding how the world works. * *> Contemplating one's navel is hugely harder to do than you think.* *Playing the piano with your feet, even if it's only done very poorly, is also extremely difficult, however like navel gazing it will not help you one bit in understanding how the world works. * *> As for AI, they've created a black box which can carry on a conversaton as if it is conscious. But since you don't know what conscousness is, how are in a position to judge? AG * *I don't have a definition of consciousness but I have something better, examples of it, the ability to engage in an intelligent conversation; when one of my fellow human beings is able to do that I conclude that he is conscious and when he is unable to do that, for example when he is sleeping or undergoing anesthesia or dead, then I conclude that he is not conscious. And I use the exact same method to judge the consciousness of an AI. * * John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* FWIW, the reason you are unable to contemplate on your navel for even five minutes is because you have no control over your mind. A word to the wise is sufficient. As for consciousness, since you can't define and more important you don't know how it comes to exist, you can't assert a black box has it. AG rnnq -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/519391b4-71ff-4ff7-9a73-23051317071dn%40googlegroups.com.
