An interesting post to what was a deteriorating thread. I'm interested to know what size store you had in mind for your scenario.
If I only have a small store, copies will be fast and drive space is cheap, does this make it an attractive solution for small installations ? thanks Matt Joyce Children's Cancer Institute Australia http://www.ccia.org.au > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Webb, Andy > Sent: Friday, 25 June 2004 11:32 AM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Shadow Copying of Exchange 2003 > > > One of many other differences with Exchange and SQL is that > because of the structure of the files, much larger portions > of the data may change between snapshots. > > So, you snap at 9pm, then do a backup, which zeros out > deleted pages, then maintenance runs to clean out tombstoned > indexes, coallesce pages and about 8 other things, then you > snap again at 9am. > > At 10am your store crashes and so you pull back the 9am > snapshot - it's pretty quick, but still not instant because > between 9am and 10am 80% of your users were online > regenerating new indexes and making changes to all the items > they received overnight. But all and all you have somewhere > south of 5% of the blocks to copy from the snapshot back onto > the production database LUNs. But wait - it's not really > wise to lose your "latest state", so somehow before you snap > back to 9am, you should get a backup of the store at the time > of the crash. This isn't a snapshot at this point. > > But let's assume you have a way to handle that responsible > backup. You snap back to 9am and discover that that store is > corrupt too. Bummer. Now you have to snap back to 9pm and > somewhere north of 40% of your database pages have changed. > Bummer again, that's going to take actual time to copy that > much data. So, now it's 3pm or so and you're finishing up > the copy and you have to get the store started and replay any > logs you have so you don't lose all that data from the > 9pm-10am timeframe. That might be a lot of logs, so again, > not instant. > > Every one of these challenges can be addressed with money and > hardware. > > For some people, the cost of having the mail system down is > commensurate with those costs. For others it's not; a more > traditional tape based system or "online backup" scenario is > more practical. > > Regardless, this illustrates that snapshot backups are an > iceberg and the VSS capability in the OS is merely the tip. > > There were some good presentations at TechEd on this and > there are a couple new whitepapers out on the Exchange Site. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Henry Sieff > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 5:00 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Shadow Copying of Exchange 2003 > > Volume shadow copy is like the various volume copying > products used for years now on high end SAN's (like HDS > truecopy/shadowcopy). Basically, you have two equal sized > volumes (PRODUCTION and BACKUP). These are kept in sync by > the SAN controller. At any time, you can break the sync, and > then BACKUP is a valid backup of PRODUCTION. You can mount > BACKUP on another server (or the same one if you're not > running MSCS) and use the file on it or whatever. > > All the syncing is block level, and even if you've had it > unsynced for a while, its pretty quick to catch up once you > unmount and resync. > > Hence the issue (up until now?) with exchange/SQL. While exchange (or > SQL) > is running, the files themselves are inconsistant, so what > you had to do was stop exchange/SQL, then break the pair, > then you restart exchange SQL. Then you could make a tape > copy of the BACKUP volume at your leisure, or not. > > What Volume Shadow Services is supposed to do is handle all > of that by making the files consistant and then syncing then > breaking, in effect giving you an instantaneous backup. > > Henry > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Ajay > > Kulsh > > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 2:32 PM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: Re: Shadow Copying of Exchange 2003 > > > > > > Ken, > > > > I get the error message "Sorry this meeting has already finished". > > -- > > > > And, about one of my original questions, how can the huge > > exchange database > > of many GBs be copied in "about a minute" and where it is > written to? > > > > So far, only Samantha's response makes sense unless one of > > you have actually > > used this feature and can give some inside info. > > > > Jay > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ken Cornetet > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 8:31 AM > > Subject: RE: Shadow Copying of Exchange 2003 > > > > > > You all may want to view this webcast: > > > > Go to: http://www.placeware.com/cc/mseventsbmo/join > > Your Name: (enter your name) > > Meeting ID: 1032251381 > > Meeting Password: webcast > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > Bridges, Samantha > > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 9:57 AM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Shadow Copying of Exchange 2003 > > > > > > I understand that you cannot or should not think of Shadow > copying the > > Exchange IS. The shadow copying feature in Windows 2003 is > for the OS > > not for a database. To be clearer, you can use shadow copy for > > Windows or the OS not for the Exchange database. > > > > Hope this makes sense. We were in the same thought pattern > as you and > > learned this wasn't going to work. > > > > Samantha > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ajay Kulsh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 8:42 PM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: Shadow Copying of Exchange 2003 > > > > > > I need some enlightenment regarding Shadow Copying of Exchange 2003. > > > > I have read MS article - 822896 and some other references to > > understand > > shadow copying. What is not clear to me that if it takes > > typically only > > *about a minute* to create a shadow copy, how long does it > > normally take > > to write this data to a backup hardware? And while backup program is > > writing this, where is data kept? Memory cannot keep so much > > and I don't > > see any hard drive space requirements mentioned. > > > > Can shadow copying of Exchange 2003 only work with backup > > like SAN, not > > normal tape drive? > > > > Jay Kulsh > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Web Interface: > > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&t > > ext_mode=& > > lang=english > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > > %%email.unsub%% > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: > > Jupitermedia Corp. > > Attn: Discussion List Management > > 475 Park Avenue South > > New York, NY 10016 > > > > Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > --- > > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Web Interface: > > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&t > ext_mode=& > lang=english > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > %%email.unsub%% > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: > Jupitermedia Corp. > Attn: Discussion List Management > 475 Park Avenue South > New York, NY 10016 > > Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Web Interface: > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&t > ext_mode=& > lang > =english > To unsubscribe send a blank email to > %%email.unsub%% > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: > Jupitermedia Corp. > Attn: Discussion List Management > 475 Park Avenue South > New York, NY 10016 > > Please include the email address which you have been contacted with. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Web Interface: > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&t ext_mode=& lang =english To unsubscribe send a blank email to %%email.unsub%% Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. 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