You can argue yes and no to that. But that's something I'm not going to get into. Regardless you can argue the fact that more competition only creates better products
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:bounce-exchange-97309@;ls.swynk.com] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:47 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Moving E2k storage group to new Server There's plenty of competition today to Exchange which provides significantly more groupware functionality than "openexchange". Some of it even runs on *nix. > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Hummert [mailto:hummertc@;noghri.net] > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:40 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > > But is competition. Hopefully someday it will become good competition > and finally Microsoft will have someone to try to one up again with > each release instead of providing new functions and features when they > get around to it > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:bounce-exchange-97309@;ls.swynk.com] On Behalf Of Chris Scharff > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:04 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Moving E2k storage group to new Server > > > It's not "open" and it's certainly not Exchange. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:tony.mccullough@;hcs.state.or.us] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 10:21 AM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > > You mentioned that there is nothing in the Linux world like > > Exchange. > > > I haven't looked at this but I received this "Open Exchange" link > > from > > > a friend of mine the other day. I can't vouch for it, but thought > > I'd > > > throw it out. > > > > http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/suse_business/openexchange/ > > in > > dex. > > ht > > ml > > > > Tony McCullough > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ken Cornetet [mailto:Ken.Cornetet@;kimball.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 7:09 AM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Moving E2k storage group to new Server > > > > > > Here's my take: > > > > A quick peek a CDW shows SBS at $1277 > > http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?EDC=274287. Microsoft > > is offering a $500 rebate if you can read the SBS sales literature > > and answer 20 some-odd questions. That puts the price at $777. > > > > I'm not familiar with the MCSP program, so I cannot comment on that. > > You are also forgetting about Exchange CALS at $70 each. > > > > You are correct in that growing past SBS is somewhat painful (I > > might argue with the 10-20 times more expensive. Exmerging 50 > > mailboxes is not that painful...), but I would maintain that if a > > company finds themselves outgrowing SBS, then it should not have > > been put in in the first place. > > > > Yes, Linux is a viable option for small companies (big ones, too). > > It does have some drawbacks, though. > > > > 1. Support. Finding a local consultant to support a Linux system is > > going to be harder than finding someone to support Microsoft > > products. > > > > 2. Third-party applications. Going Linux defiantly puts a company > > outside the mainstream and limits third party server applications > > like > > > mail filtering, antivirus, web surfing control, etc. > > > > Running a business on Linux servers is, IMHO, very a very viable > > option. But, it pretty much requires a resident propeller-head to > > smooth over the rough spots. Most small companies (where SBS is > > targeted) just can't afford a full-time system admin. They would > > much rather farm it out to a consultant. > > > > Let's not forget that Exchange is more than email as well. There's > > nothing in the open source arena (that I know of) that can provide > > the > > > same functionality that Exchange provides. > > > > I'll conclude stating that IMHO, SBS is an excellent value when > > applied in the appropriate environment - that is a small company > > (5-15 > > > employees) needing at least file-sharing and Exchange and with no > > resident system admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:greg@;infonition.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:55 PM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Moving E2k storage group to new Server > > > > > > Thought long and hard about letting this go, but where is the fun in > > that? > > > > First, to answer the migration piece of this. The only option I can > > think of at this time would be to treat the SBS Exchange system as a > > foreign mail system, meaning export and import mailbox data to > > migrate. Migration costs will be 10-20 times what it would be to > > simply put another server in place and move users. But, if is your > > only option... > > > > Now on to the fun... > > > > SBS License: $1,499.00 (5 clients) > > > > Real W2K Server license: $1,199.00 (10 clients) > > E2K Standard Edition: $1,299.00 (can always be upgraded to > > Enterprise if > > needed) > > > > Now, realistically, if you are a small little shop, this is all the > > Microsoft products that you need and so for 1.67 times the amount > > you eliminate all of the limitations of SBS and have actual, real > > products > > > versus cripple-ware. > > > > But what about ISA? Don't need it. Go get a Linksys box for $100 for > > your firewall and it is wide open outbound. > > > > But what about SQL Server? IF you need it, then it's $1,499.00. > > Otherwise, you don't need it. > > > > If you are a small business, you can get cripple-ware for $1.5K or > > actual software to run your business for $2-4K. Under the first > > scenario you are setting yourself up for failure and under the > > second, > > > you have invested just a little more money but have primed your > > business for growth. > > > > And if you are such a cash-strapped business that you cannot afford > > the extra grand or two, then you should probably be looking at free > > software. Put a Linux box up, done. It's cost $0.00. > > > > And, just for fun, 2 MCP exams, ~$250 and an MCSP license ~$2000.00. > > So again, for just a few extra (hundreds) of dollars you get lots > > and lots and lots of actual software versus cripple-ware. > > > > So where is the business case for SBS? There isn't one. It is for > > closed-minded, all I know is Microsoft, lazy people that do not > > think far enough ahead to keep them from running into closed doors. > > Installing SBS is setting yourself up for failure, period. I have > > seen > > > it time and time again. > > It is Microsoft cripple-ware, plain and simple. You get what you pay > for > > and > > you get what you deserve when you don't plan ahead. > > > > I am more than willing to admit I am wrong, so show me a business > > case > > > where SBS is the RIGHT solution. And by that, I do not mean the > > lowest > > > cost solution, because Linux has that one well in hand. I mean, when > > all the pros and cons are analyzed, that SBS is the winner. I > > honestly have never encountered it. > > > > > > > You know what they say: opinions are like, well never mind... > > > > > > Personally, I think SBS is a fantastic product, provided you keep > > > it's limitations in mind up front. Yes, it would be a pain to > > > upgrade, but my guess is that the vast majority of SBS > > > installations > > > > would never face that task. > > > > > > Most small companies (10-15 employees) could never afford to buy > > > Win2k, E2K, and ISA server, let alone SQLServer. SBS gives them > > > all this for the price of Win2K server alone! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:greg@;infonition.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:22 PM > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > Subject: Re: Moving E2k storage group to new Server > > > > > > > > > Well, the easiest way to do this is to install another E2K server > > > and simply move the mailboxes to the new server. Now, the only > > > thing > > > > that might throw a wrench into this for you is running sbs2k. And, > > > I > > > > have repeatedly stated this and let me go on record as stating > > > that SBS is a terrible product that should never be installed > > > anywhere in > > > > the entire world because of the serious limitations that it > > > imposes on organizations. This is a perfect example as to why an > > > organization should NEVER install SBS. And if there are any > > > companies out there that have consultants recommending SBS, fire > > > them immediately and get somebody competant. > > > > > > One of the big problems with SBS is that it uses the Standard > > > Edition of Microsoft Exchange, which has the nasty limitation of > > > not > > > > being able to support multiple Exchange servers. > > > > > > From Microsoft docs: > > > "Exchange 2000 on a Small Business Server installation is > > > restricted > > > > from being part of a larger Exchange server organization. Because > > > Small Business Server 2000 is installed as the root of the Active > > > Directory forest, you cannot install the Exchange 2000 component > > > into an existing organization." > > > > > > Also from Microsoft docs: > > > "Full installation of Windows 2000 is required. It is not possible > > > to upgrade Microsoft BackOffice Small Business Server to the > > > Windows > > > > 2000 operating system; however, if your hardware meets the system > > > requirements > > > > > (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/advancedserver/evaluation/sysr > > eq > > s/) > > > for Windows 2000, you can install the full product. > > > > > > The current plan for the next release of Small Business Server is > > > to > > > > base the product on the Windows 2000 operating system. For more > > > information about Small Business Server, see the Small Business > > > Server Web site > > > (http://www.microsoft.com/smallbusinessserver/default.htm)." > > > > > > What this means in a nutshell is that I don't have a solution for > > > you. I have searched Technet and have not been able to find an > > > acceptable upgrade path from SBS to anything useable. Essentially, > > > since you are running SBS, you cannot install a new E2K server > > > into the organization and simply move the user mailboxes. And, in > > > all honesty, I have not found an acceptable way to upgrade SBS to > > > W2K enterprise. > > > > > > If anyone has a solution out there for upgrading SBS to enterprise > > > versions, I'd love to see it. There HAS to be a way, Microsoft > > > could > > > > not have been THAT bone-headed. On the other hand, they released > > > SBS > > > > so I guess I wouldn't put anything past them. > > > > > > One thing you might try is backing up your stores, installing a > > > new non-SBS server with full W2K and E2K and restoring to that > > > server. > > > > > > Avoid SBS like the plague, it is a terrible, terrible product and > > > Microsoft, in good conscience, should NEVER have released it upon > > > an > > > > unsuspecting public. > > > > > > > Exchange is working fine on the server its just that the raid > > > > set on this dodgy ibm server keeps going critical after a > > > > reboot(keep getting the runaround from ibm) and we want the > > > > customer to purchase a better server but there is a lot of mail > > > > stored on it and i was just wondering how easy/hard would it be > > > > to move the mail to another server. Also is their any > > > > repercussions moving mail from sbs2k to a win2k o/s. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Damian. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com > > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > > To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > > To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > > To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
