Dennis Veatch wrote:
>
> Thanks Ramon, that was some of the best explained modem info I have seen in a
> long time.
>
> Sounds like a call to Sprint to check their lines is in order. Though I have
> not checked it I am very certain my lines inside the house are fine. I replaced
> then all with CAT 5.
>
> Since the dial tone problem exists with my USR and an Amquest modem and it
> happens in Win98 and Linux, based on your info, it points back to the phone
> line.
If the problem is in your house wiring somehow, the TELCO will
charge
you $70 for the visit and probably not fix it for you. I suggest
you try the LONG cord from the protector box to your computer and
see if it acts the same. The long cord is an investment that you
can use later on for something. $70 to Sprint to tell you your
house wiring is foobar is a waste of money. Be SURE its at
the protector or beyond BEFORE you call them up!!!! Or kiss $70
goodbye. Even in Nome, Alaska you can buy 9 or 10 burgers with
fries for $70.
>
> In linux I use 'scripts' as suggested by the various how to's to automate the
> login procedure. That is, I don't have to enter my userid and password. They
> are very basic scripts.
Be careful here. If you do not use a terminal window or a
scripted
login in Windows 95/98 (and very few ISP's today use that type),
the you do not need scripts in Linux. In Win95, if all you do is
put your username and password in the CONNECT TO box, then you are
NOT using scripts.
What is in use is a system called PAP authentication. It is an
encrypted automated challenge/response thing to your login.
Most ISP's will honor PAP, like NOok Net.
Now, depending on how the ISP set things up, here is how scripted
logins are handled AT NOOK NET.
If you log in with Minicom or a Win95 terminal program, you
will get a prompt
Welcome to Nook Net, ISP for Western Alaska.
Login: veatch <--- you are putitng this in
Password: mar44tg5 <--- your password
and....you are disconnected. Why, because loging in MANUALLY,
like
a terminal session or a scripted login does, will activate certain
things in Nook NEts authenticator. First, it tells it that this
is NOT PAP, but manual login. Then it looks at the file of people
that are allowed to log in manually. You are not on the list.
You
get disconnected.
In fact, for anyone using RADIUS authentication with the
computer's
/etc/passwd file (Authentication = System or UNIX in the radius
users file), this is the DEFAULT behavioru. Dump you from the
system.
Radius is the most prevalent authentication system. There is also
TACACS, invented by Cisco, with about 20% penetration. I do not
know about TACACS. But Radius works as advertised. If you are
authenticating from the /etc/passwd file or PAM, it works like
I told you above. If the authentication is off the
/etc/raddb/users
file, then the password is there and you can manually log in.
Lastly
some users authenticate of a MySQL database. All this depends on
how the ISP set it up.
Also, different terminal servers at the ISP may authenticate
differently.
Thus for 7 logins you may get a failure on manual login, but on
the
8th try you may get a different terminal server and you can get
in.
Who knows?
Best is to use PAP. If you set things up in KPPP, you leave the
username and password BLANK (yes, BLANK), then check the box that
says to use PAP, and in PAP setup you put in the username and
password.
Your /etc/ppp/secrets file will then contain the username and
password.
Failure to do this is what leads most Linux users astray with
ISP's.
They try Minicom, or follow normal KPPP instructions and they have
this IRRESISTIBLE urge to put in a username to the login:
prompt!!!!!
It will -at least at Nook Net and probably over 80% of all ISP's
--
lead you down a path of doom. The login: prompt is a chimera.
By the way, a failed authentication this way leads to a log file
entry for me, and I can peruse at my leisure to see who of my
local users are trying to hack into the system. Or are clueless
Linux users.
Macs and Windows do not have this problem because they assume you
will use PAP authentication. With both a Mac and Windows95/98 PC
if you do not use PAP, but need something special, then you have
to futz around setting it up. Pain in the butt.
Linux....well, Linux assumes the REVERSE. That you use terminal
screen/script login and if you are PAP user then you have to jump
thru the hoops.
I have told 1000 times the people that write these PPP programs
that
they are out of touch with reality, but who listens to ISP's??
Anyway, why does Linux do this? Because if you set up a Linux
PPP server (a box that RECEIVES inbound phone calls), then the
scripted login is the way to go. So the guys that wrote the
PPP programs assumed your machine is connected to a LAN on
the internet, and that PPP is used to receive inbound PPP calls
or dial out to some Intranet somewhere, not an ISP.
I am sure that back in 1993-1994 (and pppd is even older than
that!),
this was the case. Today, 99.999944% of all modem calls are to
an ISP, and the vast majority of those are done with PAP clients.
Gone are the days of logging in with a text only computer or
terminal and going thru manual logins. We are in the new
Millenium,
get on with PAP and forget all those scripts, terminal windows,
expect--send sequences and all that crap. Leave it blank.
If you have a /etc/ppp/secrets file properly set up,you can log
in via PAP thru minicom this way:
minicom> ATZ
OK
minicom> ATDT 443-8007
blah blah
CONNECT 49333/ARQ/LAPM/V90/V42BIS
blah blah
Welcome to Nook Net,
Internet Provider for Western Alaska
Login:
Now right here STOP!!!! Do not reply to Login: If you do,
you are DEAD MEAT. You need to terminate minicom, activate pppd,
but stay connected. There is a command to minicom to
"terminate but stay connected (no hang up)". This has varied
since 1995. I think the current command is either Control-Q or
Alt-Q but it could be Control-A, Q. In any case, give that
command
now you depart minicom and are back at the command prompt:
foobar prompt# /sbin pppd -detach -defaultroute &
I caution you that the line above is 99% wrong, It has been about
two years since I used it. You need to get it right. At any
rate, it starts pppd and also will start PAP as it is built into
pppd. When pppd starts, it sends a PAP querry to the remote
server. IF it gets a response, it logins via PAP using the
secrets
file.
Alas, the default configureatino in KPPP and others is to do it
backwards. Lets face it boys, like it or not, the standard way
to do it is the way the Win95 boxes do it. If I did it Linux
way, my customer support expenses would eat me alive.
> I understand about the minimum-wage folks ISP's use for front line tech
> support. When I have called and Linux entered the conversation, their immediate
> response is we do not support linux. Well, last time I checked, ppp/slip, etc
> is pretty much the same reguardless of the operating system. Yes, I suppose
> there are some variances in its implimentaion.
It is not unreasonable on the part of the ISP. He gets 350 calls
a day to a staff of 10 people. Every week or two he gets a call
from a Linux user. Do you expect him to hire a Linux-savvy
person? Do you how many variants of Linux there are? Some use
XISP, some use KPPP, some do it plain command line pppd, some use
EASYISP. All these tools are different. Some are add on, some
come iwth Mandrake, Turbo Linux, Caldera, RedHat, Slackware, you
name it.
No sir.
The problem lies right here on the Linux side. We have fragmented
our efforts and expect the ISP to take care of them. I am an ISP
and I will tell you that I will not do so. I will handle my
Linux customers like this:
1. I give them the phone number,
2. I give the the DNS numbers,
3. I tell them its PAP authentication. If they do not know wht
this is, I tell them to go read their books;
4. I give the mail server info.
That is exactly what I give Mac users too. But the Macs...they
have a wizard that connects fine. So does Win95/98. Easier yet,
the Win95/98 people do not need to know DNS numbers nor anything
about PAP.
Why can't these Linux developers and plain stupid jerks figure
this out, I simply do not know. They come up with KPPP and these
other complex programs that are supposed to handle every
eventuality,
when in 99% of the cases it takes just ONE SIMPLE SETUP.
So please, do not complain to the ISP about your problem. It is
not theirs. It is yours, sir, and the developers that complicated
Linux out of connectivity to 99% if the ISP's.
do the math. 80% of ISP's use RADIUS....about 20% will support
scripted logins. But 99% of them will do PAP. In fact, I bet
that
99.9% of them do PAP. those that don't....well they basically
do not do Macs and Win95, and they certainly do NOT do WEBTV. I
am sure no ISP cuts himself off from those markets.
So why doesn't Linux get on the bandwagon? Beats me.
>
> I especially liked your audio clues to assist in determining which chipset a
> modem might have.
>
> Some time ago I saw a write up from the Evansville, IN newspaper (on the web)
> about the Rockwell equipment (for ISP's) and they had nothing good to say about
> their equipment either.
Like I said, I am glad Rockwell makes planes for the department of
defense. They have lots of money to fix them. I am glad they do
not make airliners or cars or we'd all be broke. Sorry, Rockwell,
but that is my opinion.
> And finally to the person who suggested trying irqtune. That solved my frame
> error problems, thanks. For now I am leaving the serial port at the highest
> prioity, if I noticed other problems cropping up because it is #1 on the list
> I'll fiddle around with that later.
This is great news. Now all we have to do is knock some heads
at Mandrake, Slackware, RedHat and have someone come out with
a PPP wizard that is identical to Win95 or Mac and we are in
business. In fact, I would go so far as to say that what we
need can be simpler: If your ISP needs scripted Login, do NOT
use this wizard, period.
Another thing is that windows 95 has a protocol to get the DNS
numbers from the server. This is NOT dhcp. Its a simple part
of the ppp protocol that is not implemenmted in the Mac or Linux
o/s's. It adds a layer of complexity to Linux as well. This
needs fixing. The Win95 default is to use server assigned DNS,
and that works fine here at Nook Net. However, you can alwauys
in a Mac or Win box write in the DNS numbers.
Anyhow, that is my rant today, one day after the Ides of January.
--
Ramon Gandia ============= Sysadmin ============== Nook Net
http://www.nook.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
285 West First Avenue tel. 907-443-7575
P.O. Box 970 fax. 907-443-2487
Nome, Alaska 99762-0970 ==== Alaska Toll Free. 888-443-7525
