This is my opinion..... I sit on both edges of the OS fence (I use M$ aat work and Linux at home.) Unfortunately, I can not see giving most of the users I work with any linux packages at all. They would never get past the installations. Does this mean they are ignorant. Yep! But, you would not want me doing brain surgery either. I think LM should be working towards an "ignorant user" install option as well (I like the ideas in the previous message!). If you really want to convince the companies of "proprietary products" that the platform is one they need to pay attention to, then we have to convince the general public of the value of Linux as well. That is never going to happen when they can not do the first 5% (installation) in relative ease and lack of thought. M$ has the right idea when it comes to that 95% of the market that is computer tech illiterate. They take away the choices. It keeps them (the user) from being overwhelmed. To me, an "ignorant user" pacakge would come with a desktop or two to choose from at install time, but only one gets installed. Yeah - this flies in the face of what most of us want on our systems. But, before we are going to get the "masses" to use Linux/Un*x of any type, the confusion of installation (read too many choices) has to vanish. The installation package would also contain the mainstream "products" that are being used and agressively developed in the Linux/Un*x world. But, only one or two choices from each type, and GUI based. Embrace what has worked for M$ (ease of use up front, limited choices to the end user, ...) and extend it beyond their ability (Read stability, powere, etc in addition). I hate being forced to make money on M$ products, and would love to see M$ replaced with a sane platform. Believe it or not, it starts at the installation for most of my users. Outside of the use of FUD, these are the time proven tactics that M$ has used to squash competition and large scale innovation, and win support of the masses. What does everyone else think? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buchan Milne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:30 AM Subject: Re: [expert] LM 7.2 and beyond (part 2) > > > Larry Marshall wrote: > > > > > Keep all the packages up-to-date > > > > Probably not a popular opinion but it makes more sense to keep most of > > those packages one version behind the cutting edge in your official > > distributions. All you need to do is look at what's going on right now > > with RH7.0 to see that being on the edge can spell lots of trouble. If > > you're going after the Windows user you can't have things crashing and > > being incompatible as they just aren't going to buy into the "download > > this and compile" model. > > This really depends on the package itself. Redhat was really stupid to > release a package not supported by the developers. However, when, for > example, samba 2.2.0 comes out, I would be very happy for Mandrake to > ship a CD the next day that has RPMs on it. Why ? Because I know the > samba team are almost religious about the stability of their software. > They had samba 2.2.0-alpha0 running for more than 2 weeks without any > problems before officially releasing the alpha0 snapshot. > > It comes down to a judgement call. I would advocate Mandrake even > putting in cutting edge apps that are only available in the expert > install. > > [snip] > > > get rid of junk progs (WE NEED YOUR HELP HERE!) > > Maybe it would be an idea to have a web site where we can rate the > current packages in Mandrake and elect new packages (I vote "no" from > gnomba, and "yes" for LinNeighbourhood in advance!). > > > You know what I think? I think you need to change the way you divide up > > the installation options. You're doing a really good job of letting > > experts select what they want installed. You do nothing to allow > > non-computer saavy people to do this. v7.2 seems to even drop the > > "normal/developer" option from the basic installation. In one way that > > makes sense why can't a less-than-expert person decide whether they want > > games on their machine or not? > > The "custom" installation did cater for this in 7.0/7.1, is it still > there in 7.2? (I'm still waiting for my 7.2beta3 CDs to arrive) > > The server installation should be more detailed, like having tickboxes > for the following services: > -web server (apache) > -database server (MySQL/PostgreSQL) > -dynamic web content (mod*, php etc / zope) > -mail server (postfix/sendmail + imap/pop3) > -Windows file+print server (samba) > -Mac file+print server (netatalk) > -Internet configuration server (DNS/DHCP) > -Firewall > -IP Masquerading > -ftp server > -Unix file+print server (NFS/LPD) > -terminal server (telnet/ssh) > -proxy server > -Remote administration (webmin) > (more ?) > > This could even be done with the "normal" and "development" choices > -Office (abi gnumeric) > -Graphics (gimp etc) > -Multimedia (xmms and friends) > -Email > > After selecting the combination of these services/features, one might > want to go on to a simple configuration screen for each one. For > example, the "Windows File and Print" could have a screen that sets up > workgroup name, joins an NT domain or configures a PDC, shares printers. > > If these "screens" are done well enough, and in a modular fashion, they > could be built into DrakConf (and eventually replace linuxconf!!). > > You should look into the perl scripts that come with webmin. I think > they could be used as a backend (as they currently are to the web > interface) to a set of Mandrake front-ends. > > I really hate the amount of wasted effort in linux/oss software. There > are so many projects that do similar things, yet aren't anywhere near > where they should be. For this reason, I would hope that Mandrake rather > support the development of webmin, for example, and make it's own cool > (but ncurses also for us CLI people) frontends to webmins perl scripts. > > OK. Now I've given enough ideas to you mandrake to qualify for either > shares when you guys IPO, or for a job when I'm finished studying > (although I don't know what you would do with a mechanical engineer with > lots of linux/samba/NT/html/Matlab experience), whichever happens first! > > Buchan > > > -- > |--------------------------------------------------------------| > Buchan Milne Mechanical Engineer, Network Manager > Cellphone +27824722231 > email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Centre for Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za > South Africas first satellite: http://sunsat.ee.sun.ac.za > Control Models http://www.control.co.za > |----------------Registered Linux User #182071-----------------| > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Keep in touch with http://mandrakeforum.com: > Subscribe the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" mailing list. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! 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