> The problem is not inadequate software. The problem is inadequate
> documentation.
I agree.
I asked the question about human centric computers and OSs which are
designed to serve humans and not the other way around, but I agree. However
documentation and software go together. One is useless (to most non
engineer types) without the other. People are buying tools for work or
play, not puzzles to decipher. How many cars would sell (no matter how
brilliantly engineered) if they came, not with a standard gas pedal, clutch
and brake, but with 120 different configuration buttons you needed to use to
run the car smoothly - but mechanical engineer documentation designed for
the repair engineer about which button did what or how they interacted with
each other, the manufacturer expecting you to "learn" how to use it. And
then each color or brand (read distributor) of that car had slightly
different buttons that worked slightly differently and which changed again,
ever so slightly depending on the month (read version) of production?
> Alright, I started this ball rolling so I feel obliged to at least add my
> observation regarding the above. I think Tony has a very valid point
concerning
> the sparseness of the documentation available to get you up an running
with
> Linux/Cups or whatever.
I could not agree more. Not only is the documentation inadequate and not
designed for the normal (read without a degree in computer science) - and I
am being kind - but the books available on Linux confuse matters more,
because they often discuss tools that do not happen to exist in your
particular distribution, or version and you can waste days looking for
non-existent
configuration or other tools, or they work differently in your distribution,
etc. But how can a book keep up with the moving target?
> When I decided to take the Linux plunge, I was of course new to Linux.
However, I
> was far from new to the computer world. I was involved in sewing JSC's lan
> together in Houston during the late 80's early 90's starting on 8086
machines,
> sperry Univax, etc. I have baby sat 750K lines of fortran assent
simulation
> software (remember common blocks), programmed in assembly, C, Fortran,
Ada, etc..
> I have built PC's and written drivers starting with 286's when IBM DOS, PC
DOS
> and MS DOS were arguing over who would win. Windows 286 - ME, NT, etc. So
how
> much different could Linux be to make friends with?
What a background. Can you imagine what it is like if you are just a normal
user without all that expertise who moved to linux to get a stable OS and
just wants to use the darn thing? That person goes back to the other OS or
plays with linux and uses the other one for "serious work". (My NT4 system
has not crashed in over a year). Last year there were 6 linux booths at
FOSE. This year only 2. Is there a message there?
> get you through the maze. Most of the time spent learning
> Linux/Samba/Apache/DNS/Bind/DHCP/Sendmail/etc..(or at least getting it to
work)
> is spent searching for the right Man page/How-To/Web site/Mailing
List/etc...
> that has at least most of the information you are looking for. I say most,
> because no matter where you find the documentation, you invariably end up
back at
> your favorite mailing list to find out "Oh, in addition to what the Man
> page/How-To and Web site said, you also have to do X,Y and Z."
You said it.
> directory of the current distros can be terrifying to say the least. For
the
> masses to transition to Linux, it can't take 3 days of downtime to figure
out
> where to look to begin to find out why the box isn't working.
Exactly! You are describing my situation.
Jeff Malka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Registered Linux user 183185
----- Original Message -----
From: David Rankin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 12:12 AM
Subject: Re: [expert] Re: Human centric computers (was: I like cups)
> "tony K." wrote:
>
> > At 07:21 12-03-01 -0500 some list member(s) wrote:
> > >> My 2 cents worth as well. I am using cups with Mandrake 7.2/Samba
2.07. It
> > >works
> > >> great. I have no idea how I got it to work, it just works.
> > >
> > >Ah, there is the problem. Anything is great when it works. Problem is
when
> > >it does not work and figuring out "what" you have to do...
> >
> > The problem is not inadequate software. The problem is inadequate
> > documentation.
> >
> > Allow me to elaborate:
> > The documentation is usually written by the software developer.
> > He - as a general rule - just does not understand that the user
> > is operating in different ~operational~ and ~previous knowledge~
> > context. It is unfortunate that many a hard day's coding work
> > has been totally wasted by documentation which lacks
> > nothing but an intoductionary "Concepts and Facilities"
> > chapter.
> >
> > CUPS is no exception.
> >
> > tk
> >
> > Anthony K. Transportation Systems - no HTML mail please.
>
> My Observations and Experience:
>
> Alright, I started this ball rolling so I feel obliged to at least add my
> observation regarding the above. I think Tony has a very valid point
concerning
> the sparseness of the documentation available to get you up an running
with
> Linux/Cups or whatever. I was new to Linux as of January and I decided to
take
> the plunge. I knew it wouldn't be easy, but I was willing to "pay the
price" to
> learn. The Linux movement is one of the greatest things taking place in
> technology today. The OS is elegant and flexible and its capabilities are
> unmatched. That, in and of itself, is Linux's double edge sword.
>
> When I decided to take the Linux plunge, I was of course new to Linux.
However, I
> was far from new to the computer world. I was involved in sewing JSC's lan
> together in Houston during the late 80's early 90's starting on 8086
machines,
> sperry Univax, etc. I have baby sat 750K lines of fortran assent
simulation
> software (remember common blocks), programmed in assembly, C, Fortran,
Ada, etc..
> I have built PC's and written drivers starting with 286's when IBM DOS, PC
DOS
> and MS DOS were arguing over who would win. Windows 286 - ME, NT, etc. So
how
> much different could Linux be to make friends with?
>
> A LOT! Why? Because with just about everything else above you could pick
up a
> relatively good manual or reference guide and have a reasonably good
roadmap for
> the journey. Not so with Linux -- not a fault with Linux -- just not so
with
> Linux. The documentation that exists for Linux is scattered across the
Linux
> World in a million different places, largely due to the number of core
components
> of a Linux distribution being developed and maintained in at least that
many
> different places as well. There are numerous basic Linux manuals
available,
> however, none are relatively comprehensive as far a providing a good
roadmap to
> get you through the maze. Most of the time spent learning
> Linux/Samba/Apache/DNS/Bind/DHCP/Sendmail/etc..(or at least getting it to
work)
> is spent searching for the right Man page/How-To/Web site/Mailing
List/etc...
> that has at least most of the information you are looking for. I say most,
> because no matter where you find the documentation, you invariably end up
back at
> your favorite mailing list to find out "Oh, in addition to what the Man
> page/How-To and Web site said, you also have to do X,Y and Z." Again, this
isn't
> a fault of Linux, rather it is simply a side effect of the open source
concept
> and business model.
>
> How to solve this? Hmm - sounds like opportunity.
>
> There is no doubt that a comprehensive source of information can be
distilled
> from the above sources. I mean, I got my net up and running, waded through
the
> murky water, [I still haven't solved that pesky xntp/UTC/localtime/samba
> timeserver problem ;- ) ] and while I'm not entirely clear how I did it,
it
> works, my logs are clean. The most frustrating part, going back to Tony's
> premise, was that the simplest problems took days to solve because there
was no,
> or incomplete, documentation regarding the specific config or problem I
was
> dealing with or there was nothing to point you to where the documentation
was
> (save and except Google or whatever your favorite search is).
>
> Which brings me to my point (Thank God they say). Linux has reached the
> threshhold of going mainstream. Not only for corporate user with fat IT
budgets,
> but for the small office masses as well. I think I have seen several
threads from
> the list-admins acknowlegding that "We victims of our own success."
(commenting
> on the massive increase of posting from new users seeking answers) The
comment is
> perfectly true and all I can say is "Keep up the great work guys -- your
doing
> one hell of a great job!" Linux is a great community with a lot of great
people.
> Just like any society, its strength is in its numbers.
>
> If Linux is going to continue making headway increasing its market
acceptance, a
> relatively comprehensive documentation system is a must. It must be
somewhere
> where it can be found. LDP has started, and most of the individual distros
and
> major component applications have their collection of knowledge, but a
large part
> of it isn't in readily usable (or understandable) form for someone who is
> relatively new, and who needs the roadmap the most. Just a look into the
/usr/doc
> directory of the current distros can be terrifying to say the least. For
the
> masses to transition to Linux, it can't take 3 days of downtime to figure
out
> where to look to begin to find out why the box isn't working.
>
> The answer -- Well that's the $24K question. How do you create a
relatively
> comprehensive reference for a widely distributed open source project that
is
> constantly changing? Surely, there must be a little VC left even after the
market
> has tumbled that could fund the development of such a project. I'll leave
it open
> for more discussion and suggestions and I will go back to practicing law
which is
> an equally nebulous and poorly documented journey. At least now I have a
server
> and net for my office that is utterly amazing to say the least. Oh, and
one more
> observation, except for the electrical storm and associated power outage,
not one
> reboot on the server has been required!
>
>
>
