From: "Jay Novak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:37:26 -0400
I personally have no problem with the 600cc 2 strokes. However this will
dramatically speed up the cars & will certainly require conventional
springs
& shocks.
Or we could try to slow the engines down with some very serious inlet
restrictor.
Thanks ... Jay Novak
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Chuck Voboril
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 10:15 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing
The used engine deals on the Internet are a data point for good used
GSXR600
engine packages.
and I have one price for a used 600cc Suzuki EFI 2-stroke sled motor
complete to run at $1000 from the Artic Cat salvage yard.
I don't reckon most F1000 or F600 guys that road race or solo will be
buying new from the factory either.
Chuck
>From: "Jay Novak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing
>Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:00:20 -0400
>
>I have tried mightily with every single manufacturer to get an engine
deal
>done but there is ZERO interest. If it was not for Tony Murphy we would
>have had no motors ever. The latest 600cc 2 strokes all make 125 hp.
>
>Thanks ... Jay Novak
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
>Chuck Voboril
>Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:17 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing
>
>
>Jay, my real questioin is why not pursue Japanese 2-strokes like the
>Suzuki/Artic Cat?
>
>Same mfg as your GSXR600.
>
>I think that Austria might be the problem, not so much the stroke or
>production numbers.
>
>John at Northern says the late model salvage yard 600cc FI motors go for
>about $1000. each. Harness, ECU etc. included.
>
>
>Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Jay Novak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing
> >Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:59:47 -0400
> >
> >I agree Chuck, a 2 stroke should be WAY LESS MONEY than the more
> >mechanically complex 4 strokes. The question is why aren't they? The
> >latest 493 Rotax was being sold for about $3300 & you did not get
carbs,
> >exhaust, clutches, nothing but the basic engine. This is the real
reason
> >people were not happy with the 493 in my opinion. Rotax upped the
price
> >because we were a captive market with no other choice.
> >
> >Thanks ... Jay Novak
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> >Chuck Voboril
> >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:44 PM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing
> >
> >
> >Jay, there is definitely ecomony to be had with the mass production and
> >poularity of the Japanese motors.
> >
> >But perhaps that just points out fact that the class probably should
have
> >looked at Japanese rather than Austrian 2-strokes in recent years.
> >
> >The latest japanese 600cc snowmobile motors are popular also and much
>more
> >simple than a 4-stroke to rebuild.
> >
> >Why shouldn't a Suzuki snowmobile engine be even cheaper than a Suzuki
MC
> >motor to buy and maintain? They may not make as many of them-but they
>sure
> >have a ton less moving parts to assemble and adjust.
> >
> >Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Jay Novak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >Subject: RE: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing
> > >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 12:21:21 -0400
> > >
> > >Chuck, I know you are opposed to this direction. I have also been
> > >concerned
> > >about costs but I am now convinced that there are multiple sources
for
> > >engines & rebuilds that are very much in line with the numbers I have
> > >posted. I have found multiple sources that will do complete 600cc
> >rebuilds
> > >with all new pistons, rings, bearings & valves for $1500. This is
> > >extremely
> > >reasonable IMHO.
> > >
> > >Additionally there are multiple mini sprint santioning bodies that
have
> > >bone
> > >stock classes & they do not seem to have problems keeping things
legal.
> > >F1000 has a stock engine rule. I have spoken to George Dean who is
one
> >of
> > >the most respected engine tuners in the business & he says that if
you
> >use
> > >the stock ECU & aftermarket exhaust you can get an additional 5 hp on
>the
> > >1000 & about 3 hp on the 600 engines. Much more hp is available with
> > >significant engine modifications and aftermarket ECUs. These will
not
>be
> > >legal if the 600cc engines are ever approved.
> > >
> > >I suggest that you let this play out to see what happens.
> > >
> > >Thanks ... Jay Novak
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
> > >Chuck Voboril
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:45 AM
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: [F500] Apples to Apples Pricing
> > >
> > >
> > >The prices that we have so far for GSXR600's do NOT appear to be
>factory
> >or
> > >factory dealer list prices.
> > >
> > >Those are salvage yard prices. See Jay's post on the Eformula site.
> > >
> > >If we want to play that game, the price on a low mileage Suzuki 600
> > >2-stroke
> > >with EFI and ECU is a in the $1000 category. I checked this AM with
a
> > >dealer in Thief River Falls where the factory salvage yard is.
> > >
> > >
> > >Rebuild prices have not been compared properly yet either.
> > >
> > >2-stroke rebuild parts have to be cheaper then MC parts since the
> >2-strokes
> > >mainly only need 2 sets of rings and 2 pistons/pins, not 4 ring sets
>and
> > >piston/pins+ 20 valves and valve seats plus cam parts and many more
>seals
> > >and bearings. 4 throw crank and 4 rods isn't cheap either if you need
>go
> > >that far.
> > >
> > >Freshening up a 20 valve MC motor has to always include doing 20
valves
> >and
> > >seats also. Then setting valve lash on all valves and retiming both
>cams.
> >+
> > >new timing chain/belt.
> > >
> > >Chuck
> > >
> > >--
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