of course your cosmic pissing contest with mr. parson's doesn't count.
--- In [email protected], Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- peterklutz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > snip > > > > Reading the postings on this site on FFL makes me > > wonder if not the > > incessant talking and over-intellectualization is > > actually an obstacle > > to realization. > > > > Probably better of spending the time meditating.. > > Couldn't agree more with you Peter, especially when it > becomes a cosmic pissing contest! > -Peter > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Vaj > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Very nicely conveyed! > > > > > > <applause> > > > > > > On Apr 1, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, of course there is a "reality of the > > subject > > > > and object" within the phenomenological context > > of > > > > waking state prior to liberation. Within the > > > > phenomenological context of liberation, they > > don't > > > > exist. What I'm critiquing is the possible > > > > misapprehension of a phenomenological > > description of > > > > liberation as a method or means to achieve such > > > > liberation. Within waking state there is > > dualism. This > > > > is the phenomenological reality. Teachings > > function > > > > within the context of this dualism to transcend > > the > > > > dualism. Dualistic teaching are useful fictions > > that > > > > stop serving a purpose once liberation is > > realized. Of > > > > course there is no personal enlightenment. But > > when > > > > there is a subject or personal self, as there is > > in > > > > waking state prior to liberation, enlightenment > > is > > > > understood in terms of the value such a > > condition will > > > > have for "me." It is impossible to understand it > > any > > > > other way. So one engages in a sadhana to bring > > about > > > > liberation. It's all "me, me, me." If the > > sadhana is > > > > effective it finally transcends itself and then > > the > > > > fiction of "me" is rather obvious. But the > > starting > > > > point for liberation is ignorance. And in this > > > > ignorance is an individual me that strives to > > become > > > > liberated. It is only after liberation that the > > > > fiction of "me" and any "effort of me" is > > clearly seen > > > > as absurdly false. > > > > That being said, I believe that there are > > > > thousands of people within the TM community that > > have > > > > been "techniqueing" for 20 to 40 years that are > > not > > > > liberated. No more meditation or any technique > > or > > > > yagya or proper vastu will bring about > > liberation. > > > > They are "stuck" in sattva. For these people a > > final > > > > discrimination between Self and not-Self is > > needed and > > > > the non-dual teachings of Mr. Parsons can be > > > > profoundly useful for such people. It is for the > > ones > > > > just starting a sadhana that non-dual teachings > > can > > > > create quite a bit of cofusion. For them the > > useful > > > > fiction of the dualistic teaching, I believe, > > will be > > > > more effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
