Hi RJ: On Apr 2, 2005, at 9:45 AM, rudra_joe wrote:
> Just a rehash of ole TMO dogma. > � > � > ---nah, we start where we are. Well we agree there. > I thought that was a skillful argument where George obviously was > able to use what you said. Yes, it is was nice. I am naturally suspicious of formulaic buzzwords and buzz-phrases of the TMO and circular verification that does not reference anything outside itself. The Phrase "stuck in the paradigm" is what comes to mind. > Tomorrow he might actually study the finer points of dzogchen and > 'get it' from the lama. Many people are attached to their framework. Yeah, it's a universal thang. > George has a 'nature's mechanics of bliss' framework.� So do I. So > does Dzogchen. Not so much different in what George said than spanda. > Act from the gap. If there's one gap that stands out most guys notice. > As above so below. Skill in action and all that. ;) He puts out a nice vibe. > � > Not that he doesn't put it very nicely, > he does. But doesn't it disturb you that there is no breaking out of > old parroted patterns for these people? > � > � > ---You know better than anyone that there's no, 'these people' > anywhere. Nice point. Thank you. > � > � > The total attachment to Fruit > and then the eventual claim thereof is bizarre. > � > � > � I have seen many Vajrayana and most are just working on the level of > discursive thought. You can tell when you meet the really spaced out > ones who are doing long Vajrasattva mantras in their head all the > time. And even my wife can tell if they're really transcending. Well, we're not necessarily comparing the same thing. TM is a rudimentary form of Shinay which is a dualistic method involving mental objects, in this case an ishta-mantra (although no one ever tells you that). Dualistic View means Dualistic Path and engenders Dualistic Fruit. That is both my experience and what the traditions teach. For example, someone doing intensive wrathful practice will be doing something radically different from samapatti absorption a la "TM". I think if you compare a group of practitioners doing Yidam/Ishta mantra accumulation, you'll be amazed at the similarity. > Because she has felt the saturated peace before of being in the > domes. Even though she doesn't meditate. At KC she kept saying that > even though the woman next to us didn't move a muscle in a week, > nonetheless my wife said, she was just stuck in the head, she wasn't > in rigpa. And that's of course possible, but keep in mind comparing the two--to be fair, TM-style meditation represents the first level in Dzogchen semde and is considered dualistic meditation, within cause and effect. There are three levels above that which will bear little resemblance in practice to TM-style manisika-japa. In fact there where kingdoms and pandits from India who could totally not accept that there was even a meditation beyond cause and effect--and the practitioners of these forms of meditation were persecuted, killed and forced into exile for promoting what was deemed heretical--something beyond cause and effect. Sounds crazy today, but it's history. > � I prefer rolpa. If there's one usuable concept that I know it's > rolpa. I gotta recommend this book, In Buddha's Kitchen by Kimberely > Snow. Will check it out, thanks. -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
