--- In [email protected], "at_man_and_brahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In [email protected], "Bob Brigante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Bob-zoid, > > > > > > A point that I don't recall ever having been > > > made in rebuttal to your worldview is that > > > you keep coming back to the present tense > > > you use when mentioning that Maharishi's > > > a monk, unfamiliar with the ways of the world > > > and the West. Obviously that was true fifty > > > years ago, but don't you think that he's had > > > plenty of time to learn the basics of how > > > ordinary Western people think and behave? > > > > > > > Paul-zoid: > > You think that a yogi who is living cosmic life, who spent years in > > total bliss with an acknowledged Divinity > > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/spiritual.html#guru is going to try to > > put on a 3-piece suit and learn how to deal with schmucks? > > I'm not suggesting a concerted effort, > but rather a natural process of > learning/osmosis/assimilation. > > MMY > > attuned himself to the mind of Guru Dev, he's not going to attune > > himself to the feeble minds of householders around the world, which > > he could not do as a practical matter even if he wanted to, because > > of the variety of cultures and languages around the world. MMY > > founded the TM movement, and in that he has done all that he needs to > > do. Pitching the TM movement in all the various cultures of the world > > needs to be done by people conversant with that culture -- MMY could > > not possibly know how to function in all these different societies > > and languages. > > You're exaggerating my point. I didn't say > that he'd become an expert on pygmy > culture. He's been around people from > certain countries predominantly, including > lots of Americans. It would be pretty > unnatural not to have learned the basics > of how they think. While he likely has > little experience with certain classes of > people--he's still seen a lot. He hung out > with dope smokin', wife-swappin' rock > musicians in the '60s for Christ's sake. > > He got off an elevator once in a hotel > and ran into a man who was smoking > a big stinky cigar. The guy took a look > at him and blew a big puff of smoke in > his face and then said, "So, you're that > guru that all the kids follow, huh?" Ya > don't think he learned a little bit from that? > > There's the story, like many others, of > Maharishi being shown VCRs years ago > to determine a standard for the Movement > to use. He drifted from the business > discussion when he asked to have the inner > mechanics the VCR explained to him, in > minute detail. After endless questions, he > pointed out ways in which the machinery > could be improved that delighted the > engineers. >
That's a fascinating story, just not true. MMY did indeed look at the innards of a VCR, and made the highly technical comment, "too complicated," which inspired some TMers to try to do a less complicated VCR, with zero results. > Another story--a year or so ago, he had > Hagelin tell him in detail what would > happen in a nuclear explosion, wanting > to know far more about it than you, I, or > anyone we've ever met would be able to > stomach. He wanted to understand exactly > what the nuclear threat really meant and > expected an unvarnished picture of their > horror. > Fine, then let Hagelin bring in a consultant who has some good ideas about marketing TM and he can listen to that in detail. That won't happen because Haglelin is only interested in making John-boy look important. > > > > > > > How long can a man remain utterly naive > > > and innocent about the ways of the world? > > > After all, he's extremely intelligent and about > > > the quickest study around. > > > > > > > Maybe he should learn how to pronounce English by American standards > > too? Or play the piano, or learn how to program a computer? > > I don't think those things interest him, but > he has developed an understanding of business > principles, particularly branding, that would be > the envy of any Harvard MBA, . > That's just ludricous, TM has no market identity -- when people hear about some TM research, it is instantly genericized into the benefits of generic meditation. > I'm not shoulding upon him--pause for laughs-- > but rather saying that he's demonstrated a > prodigious ability to learn about subjects that > interest him, even those foreign to his background. > > Such a man would certainly pick up a decent sense > after fifty years of the way at least dominant cultures > in the world operate. > > Remaining > > out of touch with the ugliness of so-called human life these days is > > a necessity for a yogi -- that's why they like to live in the woods, > > as Guru Dev did for many years, only coming out to find a receptive > > student who spoke English and had a Western education to make the > > bliss he lived available to the world (if the householder can't go to > > the cave, bring the cave to the householder). > > > > > > > He's been on how many world tours? > > > As a famous old man, and a leader of a worldwide > > > organization, he's met and talked with more > > > people than everyone on FFL combined. > > > > > > As for Booz Allen Hamilton, many people, including > > > David Kaplan, have tried to convince Maharishi > > > to hire this or that American consulting firm, > > > particularly w/r/t branding and marketing. > > > Maharishi rejects the preliminary plans each time. > > > I heard from a Purusha many years back about > > > a tirade he went into when talking about conducting > > > the Movement according to accepted business > > > principles, saying that the world is based on > > > such principles and look at what a mess it > > > is. He is convinced that "Maharishi Master > > > Management," whatever specifically that means > > > to him, is superior knowledge to anything > > > these firms have say. > > > > If Bevan or John Hagelin had even a ounce of class and interest in > > promoting TM (instead of themselves as masters of the world), they > > would go out and hire a consultant without telling anybody, and when > > a rational plan had been developed, then present it to MMY without > > telling him the source (this is of course, a ridiculous idea on your > > part that MMY only wants TM people to come up with ideas -- in fact, > > he has blasted the stupidity of TM management on many occasions, > > including this one: > > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/comp.html#dumpy ). And your notion > > that Maharishi rejects outsider-initiated plans is completely > > contrary to the spirit MMY showed when he declared, upon leaving > > India, that he did so to seek help from advanced countries: > > Well, Bob, perhaps Maharishi is a tad > inconsistent, for instance lambasting > both his own Movement and everything else > with equal zeal, and all the while having > said back when that we shouldn't > entertain negativity or oppose. > > What did he say about opposing, that > it's dangerous to immortality? Maybe > that's why he doesn't have all that long > to live. When MMY first came into the world, he never raised his voice or condemned, but after dealing with the brutality and stupidity of the people that he has encountered over the last 50 years, he has gotten fed up, but this is no individual anger, but the anger of nature, an anger that will express itself in natural disasters if humans continue to burden the earth with cruelty and suffering. > > > > > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/comp.html#30 > > > > In any event, MMY is aware, because he operates from the level of > > cosmic intelligence, that ordinary human reasoning cannot calculate > > the rate at which the world can tolerate enlightenment, so going slow > > in teaching TM by employing retards like Bevan is the declared Divine > > Plan of MMY and the hierarchy of the universe: > > A posting or two after mine, this fallback > of yours was predicted with stupendous > accuracy. > I'm not responsible for moronic reactions to what I say. In fact, and it's not a "fallback," MMY did clearly note the necessity of gradually enlightening the world: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/retards.html#light > > > > So why do I continue to call for a rational approach to TM > > management? Because many people are fed up with the TM movement's > > blatant stupidity, and by discussing all issues, including the most > > critical issue discussed at the above link in which MMY notes the > > need to unfold enlightenment for the world gradually, people don't > > lose heart about the prospects for enlightenment, but begin to see > > the haphazard progress of the movement as a necessary artifact of > > trying to do the right thing in the Kaliyuga, where, as Jesus found > > out, no good deed goes unpunished. > > > > Bob > > Let me ask this. Is your world view falsifiable? > Is there any imaginable real-world event, > such as an action on the part of Maharishi, > John, Bevan, or any of the Clowns in > Crowns, that could force you to change your > mind about your assumptions? > > This is the same question I put, over and over, > a few years back to a local perennial Libertarian > candidate with a personality and behavior > pattern almost exactly like yours. He refused > to acknowledge my question. It's the only > question I ever saw him avoid, after following > three of his campaigns. > > The healthy mind challenges its own assumptions. I would certainly welcome any actual challenge, but nothing in the stale ruminations you present is worth more than few words of dismissal. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! 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