--- In [email protected], "Marek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Comment below:
> ***
> 
> --- In [email protected], "shempmcgurk" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In [email protected], "Marek" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> **SNIP**
>  
> > > I've heard (or read, actually) of other saints who would get 
> > > immersed in the trivial with as much focus, energy, and 
> enthusiasm 
> > > as the (apparently) more important issues of life.
> > > 
> > > If, from the standpoint of Brahman, everything is as important 
> as 
> > > everything else (because all appearances only have value 
> relative 
> > to 
> > > other appearances and there is no independent substance or 
> reality 
> > > to any of them) and, if Maharishi is established in Brahman 
> (which 
> > > despite the many allegations of behavior that strikes me as 
> > puzzling 
> > > or dissappointing on the level of the relative, is not in any 
> way 
> > > dispositive that he is not [established in Brahman]), then 
this 
> > type 
> > > of focussed awareness on whatever is the subject at hand would 
> > seem 
> > > to be a perfectly natural phenomenon.
> > > 
> > > Awareness may stand alone but brought into contact with the 
> > relative 
> > > it becomes attention.  If one is living Brahman as one's 
> Awareness 
> > > then That is what is brought as Attention to the matter at 
hand, 
> > > whatever that may be.  
> > > 
> > > For many of us who are very engaged in the world it seems that 
> in 
> > > Maharishi's "management" style there was never any real 
priority 
> > > setting.  Almost any project became "the" priority project for 
a 
> > > time -- generally the time that Maharishi's attention was on 
it. 
> > As 
> > > soon as he turned his attention elsewhere the former priority 
> > faded 
> > > entirely. 
> > > 
> > > Most of us in the West seem very (or relatively) competent at 
> > > juggling multiple tasks and assigning constantly shifting 
> > priorities 
> > > with appropriate time allocations.  Maharishi doesn't.  But 
> > perhaps 
> > > it's likely that he was able to accomplish what he has because 
> > when 
> > > he did put his attention on the task at hand he brought 
Brahman 
> to 
> > > bear on it.
> > > 
> > > Marek
> > 
> > 
> > Marek,
> > 
> > That's all very nice as both an esoteric explanation and 
> > justification as to why MMY has done things.
> > 
> > Regardless, I must observe and assess those things from my own, 
> > admittedly, limited western-based consciousness of values.  And 
> > those values include science, rationality, and common sense.
> > 
> > But guess what?  I started TM -- and got involved in the TMO -- 
> > under the auspices of science, rationality, and common sense.  
> There 
> > was NO PLACE for gurus, blind devotion, and cults in either TM 
or 
> > the TMO when I joined up.
> > 
> > So I very well may be thinking and operating from an inferior 
and 
> > limited state of consciousness and values but that is the level 
at 
> > which TM was supposed to work...so that is the level at which I 
> will 
> > assess MMY and his activities.
> 
> **SNIP TO END**
> 
> I can't (and don't) disagree with you, but if we refuse to 
evaluate 
> the merits of meditation on any other metric than the "western-
based 
> consciousness of values" it's obvious that we're going to be 
> disappointed with the "ultimate" results.
> 
> We're all very much aware by this point that Maharishi 
was "selling" 
> TM to the West based on the "benefits" of meditation he perceived 
> westerners would value and were more or less likely to be enjoyed 
by 
> most people who meditated correctly.  But, in my experience at 
> least, it didn't take much more than an advanced lecture or two to 
> realize that TM, in spite of the initial sales pitch, was part of 
an 
> esoteric Indian tradition and it was that underlying philosophical 
> structure that provided the real framework in which the 
significant 
> growth or progress of the meditator could be evaluated.  
> 
> Also, once you saw Maharishi and spent any time with him (or spoke 
> with anyone who had spent time with him) it was clear that what 
> Maharishi was actually promising was a level of happiness and life 
> satisfaction that was far beyond getting better grades, or a more 
> restful night's sleep, or less stress, etc.  It was Bliss that he 
> was promising and furthermore, his person radiated that message 
with 
> tremendous wattage.
> 
> That fundamental message or offer is the same that all the saints 
> have always proclaimed.  For some reason, though, Maharishi just 
> always emphasized the relative values over the absolute even 
though 
> he always talked about the absolute.  It's like he never trusted 
> that people would be drawn to the deeper spiritual values over the 
> relative ones.  200% of life, All Glories Worldly and Divine -- it 
> sounds fine and all -- it sounds great when all you want is more 
> money, more power, more sex, etc., but if you get 100% of the 
Divine 
> Glory (or even some real taste of it ) then the other 100% just 
> doesn't even exist, much less matter.  
> 
> At some point, based on your own experience, you've got to come to 
> the realization that there's nothing -- no thing -- that's ever 
> going to satisfy.  Ever.  And yet acquiring and amassing things is 
> core to the current cultural paradigm, maybe has always been core 
> and probably is just the nature of the mind itself.  So, as far as 
I 
> can figure out, you've got to start re-evaluating what it is you 
> really want and what is the scale on which you measure its 
> achievement.  Real and permanent achievement (fulfillment) can't 
be 
> on the level of the body or the mind or anything else in the 
world.  
> If you limit yourself to what you can get or are in the world as 
the 
> measure of how good or useful something is to you, then TM is 
going 
> to come up short regardless but its real value is in transcending.
> 
> I think we've got to expand our models of evaluation.
> 
> Marek

I think I'll stick with my western based models -- common sense, 
rationality, and science - and reject ones I never wanted anything 
to do with: cults, obeisance to gurus, and blind belief.




To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 


Reply via email to