--- In [email protected], gullible fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > As for your observation that it is the slowest, > > well, that's about > > as scientific and as objective as my observation > > that it is the > > fastest. > > I was just giving my own personal experience, but I do > constantly meet seekers in other spiritual groups who > used to practice TM at one time and no longer do. In > other words, it's inability to evolve seekers fast is > common knowledge outside of true-believer circles. > > How many other techniques have you tried, personally?
Well, I do hatha yoga regularly (and not just the TMO-suggested set, I actually go to yoga classes 2-3 times a week)and would readily and eagerly try any and all programs and techniques that interested me (you'd have an inkling of that if you'd have been following the dianetics discussion). My position is -- as I've discussed on this forum several times -- the same as what MMY said in March of '74 in Belgium: you can do 100 different techniques as long as you do TM twice a day. You mention above your "own personal experience". Well, my personal experience with TM is, sometimes, that it is slow, it doesn't work, it's boring and that I'm not getting anything out of it. Other times I have experiences that rival Muktananda's descriptions of his experiences in his various books. My feeling is that, yes, subjective experience is probably the most important variable in one's personal assessment of whether the spiritual development technique one is doing is "fast" or "slow" or "better" or "worse" than another one. But an almost equally important variable is an arm's length objective understanding of the mechanics of what is going on. Personal experience should be weighed with intellectual assessment. When I do the above, I find, for me, that TM is the best and the fastest. AND within that paradigm, I am not prevented from doing other things. > > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In [email protected], gullible fool > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > I just > > > > happen to believe > > > > it IS the fastest and most efficient path there > > > > is... > > > > > > I don't think it's fast at all. In fact, of all > > the > > > myriad techniques I have done, it is the slowest. > > > > > > I disagree. > > > > To me, the greatest evidence that it is the fastest > > is that there's > > no effort to do it. > > > > As for your observation that it is the slowest, > > well, that's about > > as scientific and as objective as my observation > > that it is the > > fastest. > > > > > > > > > Maybe Maharishi came out with new stuff, sidhis in > > > particular, because he knew TM would require > > multiple > > > lifetimes to reach just CC. > > > > > > > > I actually believe that TM is all that's needed. > > > > Indeed, I think the sidhis, advanced techniques and > > all that other > > stuff is there because everybody around MMY get > > bugging him all the > > time about getting the "real" stuff, so he finally > > relented. > > > > > > > > > There have even been > > > references here to his having said TM without > > rounding > > > could take millions of years, or maybe it was > > millions > > > of lifetimes, I forget which, to reach > > enlightenment. > > > > > > --- shempmcgurk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Rick > > Archer > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > on 6/2/05 7:20 PM, shempmcgurk at > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], > > > > "jim_flanegin" > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> imo the problem so many of us have and have > > had > > > > with Maharishi's > > > > > >> teaching is that once we enjoyed some > > success > > > > with the initial > > > > > >> practice of TM, we then wanted a road map > > from > > > > Maharishi to go > > > > the > > > > > >> rest of the way, on our terms. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Maharishi is like any other Master, with > > his > > > > own personality, > > > > > >> idiosyncrasies, etc. He lives a certain way > > and > > > > asks his > > > > followers > > > > > > to > > > > > >> live a certain way, adhere to particular > > > > beliefs, and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What Maharishi are you talking about? > > > > > > > > > > > > Certainly not Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the > > founder > > > > of the TM > > > > > > technique. The whole idea behind TM was > > that a > > > > practitioner did > > > > NOT > > > > > > have to live a certain way OR adhere to > > > > particular > > > > beliefs...just 15- > > > > > > 20 minutes of TM twice a day and one goes > > into > > > > activity and lives > > > > > > their lives WITHOUT adopting philosophies or > > > > religions are > > > > > > requirements to doing TM. > > > > > > > > > > Hey Shemp. 30 years have passed since TM was > > > > predominantly > > > > presented that > > > > > way. Sure, they still say that stuff in > > intros, > > > > but buy the whole > > > > enchilada > > > > > and you could be (and some are) pursuing an > > > > unusual lifestyle > > > > based on > > > > > Maharishi's beliefs full time. And of course, > > many > > > > of them aren't > > > > mere > > > > > beliefs - they are founded in experience and > > some > > > > of them in > > > > research - but > > > > > many aren't. > > > > > > > > Those that "buy" into certain beliefs are free > > to do > > > > so but that's > > > > NOT what TM is...and it matters not whether 30 > > years > > > > have passed > > > > since TM was "predominantly" presented that > > > > way...that's how TM > > > > works. > > > > > > > > If MMY is asking his "followers", as the poster > > put > > > > it, "to live a > > > > certain way" or "adhere to certain beliefs", > > this is > > > > NOT -- I repeat > > > > NOT -- the TM program. It's something else > > > > entirely. And, > > > > certainly, that "something elese" may be good or > > bad > > > > or something in > > > > between but it should be judged entirely > > SEPARATELY > > > > from TM. > > > > > > > > Hey, maybe I'm naive and a "Pollyanna" but I > > hold on > > > > to the teaching > > > > that TM is a 15-20 minute period of rest > > followed by > > > > one's own self- > > > > guided free-of-dictates-from-the-TMO activity > > during > > > > activity. > > > > > > > > That's MY path...and, although I can't > > personally > > > > prove it or offer > > > > scientific studies to show it to be true, I just > > > > happen to believe > > > > it IS the fastest and most efficient path there > > > > is...and all these > > > > other things that are referred to above by you, > > > > Rick, and the other > > > > poster, are NOT TM and therefore, in my humble > > > > opinion, NOT, at > > > > least for me, the fastest and most efficient > > path > > > > (it certainly may > > > > be for others -- and that's their business -- > > but it > > > > isn't TM). > > > > > > > > That's why it upsets me that the organisation > > and > > > > the founder/leader > > > > of the organisation that promulgates TM adopts > > > > philophies and > > > > beliefs that go against the "we're not a > > religion or > > > > a philosophy" > > > > tenet. The TMO should reflect what it teaches, > > no? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Or go to: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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