--- In [email protected], Angela Mailander
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, I can't remember the names and dates, but there are
reports of levitation in the Neo-Platonic tradition, so the mysterious
East is not the only source for such stories. a
It is a wonderful metaphor isn't it? I don't think we have to presume
the actual breaking of physical laws of nature to see the value of
such stories.
>
> curtisdeltablues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"You somehow, along with Curtis seem to be under
> the impression that whenever I cite scriptures I am appealing to their
> authority. Thats also wrong. I just used them to make a reference to a
> more general belief in flying in religious scriptures."
>
> Noted! Interesting post.
>
> --- In [email protected], t3rinity <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In [email protected], t3rinity <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Heck, even Jesus Christ allowed himself to be seen
> > > > > ascending to heaven and sitting at the right hand
> > > > > of God. There are all *kinds* of portraits of him
> > > > > doing precisely that.
> > > >
> > > > ROFLOL
> > > > You nailed it Judy, thats so funny, this whole line of
argument. The
> > > > bottom line is, who is sitting in a glasshouse shouldn't throw
> stones.
> > > > People who believe in flying - no scientific proof so far, but
> equally
> > > > unfalsifiable - make fun of people who believe in flying.
> > > >
> > > > People who believe in flying, because they have the experience of
> > > > having seen it - which doesn't represent any proof, make fun of
> > > > people who believe in flying because of their own experience,
and
> > > > call them TBBs, while they themselves are TBBs.
> > >
> > > Uh, that's TBs, Michael. Did you develop a stutter? :-)
> >
> > Ok, I thought True Blue Believer, would be TBB?
> >
> > > And I never referred to Nabby as a TB for believing
> > > that TM people can fly, merely for parroting what
> > > he's been told by Maharishi as if it were some kind
> > > of sacrosanct truth.
> >
> > Quite possibly Nabby sees this different. He might think that he
> > adhers to what he has experienced - just like you.
> >
> > > > People make fun of other peoples adherence to beliefs, while
their
> > > > own belief system is rock-solid. When challenged about their own
> > > > beliefs of witnessing the very same phenomenon, and their
> > > > psychological reactions to it, that is when the validity or
> > > > seriousness of such a show was challenged in one case wished
> > > > (literally): 'Fuck off and die'
> > > >
> > > > Why is it so difficult for some people, to graciously
overlook their
> > > > own vulnerabilities and mock at the other whose belief is no
> > > > different at all? Does not the whole vedic literature suggests
> > > > strongly a belief in siddhis, do not the whole Puranas
recount them
> > > > and all of the Yogic and tantric literature is full of
references
> > > > to supernormal powers, so anybody basing his/her teachings on
such
> > > > scriptures sits in the same boat, and that includes of course
> > > > Ammaji. While I believe She is really doing good work, and is a
> > > > great being, her whole biography is full of references to the
> > > > supernormal, and the Sri Lalita Sahasranam describes the Devi in
> > > > not unclear terms as the master of Siddhis. (The daily
recitation
> > > > of this text is highly recommended by Ammaji). I don't want
to put
> > > > Ammaji or Dr. Lenz down with this, I'm just pointing out,
that you
> > > > can't believe in one thing and at the same time disbelieve in
the
> > > > very same thing. In this argument there is a very profound
> > > > dishonesty.
> > >
> > > In other words, you've never seen flying either,
> > > right?
> >
> > Not that I knew. I mean I saw some magic tricks being performed by a
> > stage magician on youtube
> > >
> > > But you believe in it, because of some words you
> > > read in books that most people consider fiction,
> > > right. :-)
> >
> > No, not right, I don't believe in it ;-) Surprise? I defend
somebodies
> > right to believe whatever he wants without believing it myself. My
> > non-belief is not very strong though. I just don't know, and I don't
> > really care either. You somehow, along with Curtis seem to be under
> > the impression that whenever I cite scriptures I am appealing to
their
> > authority. Thats also wrong. I just used them to make a reference
to a
> > more general belief in flying in religious scriptures.
> >
> > > All I'm saying is, "Prove it."
> >
> > Why? I don't believe it myself. You believe it, so why don't you
prove
> > it. Why should I prove your beliefs?
> >
> > > I've seen flying, or at least what appeared to
> > > be someone not only levitating for long periods
> > > of time in one place but moving through the air.
> >
> > You haven't seen flying, rather you saw something you believe was
> > flying. Maybe it was maybe it was just a stage magic or a sort of
> > hypnosis. Nabby also refers to his experience of levitating. I
have no
> > reason to believe that your experience was in any way superior than
> > his. Yet this is what you seem to say. Your experience seems to
> > constitute somekind of proof or substitute proof for you, while Nabby
> > according to you is only a TB and uncritically follows MMY. Somebody
> > could claim the same thing about you, that you at the time you saw it
> > were uncritically following Dr. Lenz, and never questioned the nature
> > of your experience. Believe it or not, in this question I am more
near
> > to Curtis position than you.
> >
> >
> > > Many times. And yet I wouldn't claim that it
> > > *was* flying, only that I saw it, and many
> > > times. In that particular case, the guy didn't
> > > even claim he could do it; he was more Nike
> > > about the whole thing, and Just Did It.
> >
> > Well, just in case, a stage performer wouldn't have to claim it
either
> > and still could people make believe that he did it, and he could
> > repeat it many times and many people would see it. As some videos on
> > youtube prove.
> > >
> > > All I'm suggesting to Nabby is "Just Do It." If
> > > you want us to believe that the TM-siddhi prog-
> > > ram has produced people who can really fly,
> > > <putting on my best Cuba Gooding voice> "Show
> > > us the flying."
> >
> > Well, that he doesn't show or doesn't want to doesn't prove he can't
> > of course :-) Maybe he feels that a sceptic could disturb his inner
> > state of samadhi, what do I know and I don't really care either.
> > Personally I believe you are in the same boat anyway, and Dr. Lenz
> > didn't prove flying. Why, one may ask if it was so easy to him and he
> > could do it in front of thousands? Why did he resist a performance
> > under scientific conditions?
> >
> > > *Then* we'd all be in the same boat, having
> > > seen something with our own eyes, but never
> > > knowing for sure whether it was real or not,
> > > or whether cameras would have recorded
> >
> > On the videos in youtube cameras could record it. Why couldn't Dr.
> > Lenzes performance?
> > >
> > > I'd suggest the same thing to you, Michael.
> > > The day you can come to me and say, "I've
> > > seen this phenomenon with my own eyes, *then*
> > > we can discuss flying on an equal basis.
> >
> > Wrong. I don't believe in it, and seeing for example David
Copperfield
> > doing it on stage wouldn't give me any advantage in judging the
> > phenomenon. Your belief is just on the same basis as Nabbys. I
have no
> > idea why you want to be special.
> >
> > > Until
> > > then, you're merely citing references to books
> > > and teachers that you believe are credible.
> >
> > Wrong again, misunderstanding from your side. I don't believe in
their
> > credability, I just use them to illustrate peoples beliefs.
> >
> > > And
> > > you call *me* dishonest? At least I'm speaking
> > > from my own personal experience.
> >
> > And so is Nabby.
> >
> > > Nabby too claims to have seen it, and even
> > > claims to have done it. Then again, he's the
> > > guy who keeps telling us that the Maitreya guy
> > > he believes in, who was first promised to appear
> > > Any Day Now over 30 years ago, is gonna show up
> > > Any Moment Now, and when he does he'll speak to
> > > everyone on earth simultaneously in a language
> > > they can all understand. So you'll have to
> > > forgive me if I don't consider him quite as
> > > authoritative as you seem to.
> >
> > I consider neither of you authoritative.
> >
> > > Besides, dude...you're still pissed off about
> > > some conversation I don't even *remember*.
> > > How evolved does that make you? :-)
> >
> > No, I am not pissed off about it. I just give it as an example about
> > your involvement in personal beliefs. I have nothing against those
> > beliefs. I just think that you - and many others- are applying a
> > double standard. My own beliefs and opinions are perfectly in accord
> > with my own experiences - I don't believe in flying, but I believe in
> > God (not necessarily as creator), I don't believe in individual
> > doer-ship, or an independent ego running the body-mind, and I have no
> > need to be more evolved or more smart than anybody else. Any more
> > questions?
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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