--- In [email protected], TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Scroll back up the page to the parts where you 
> 1) berated people for having rock-solid belief 
> systems, 2) claimed that it was Ok with you for
> people to believe what they wanted, and 3) that
> your disbelief in flying was not very strong 
> and that you don't really care.
> 
> Then read the above and what follows it. Sounds
> pretty strong and rock-solid to me. You're 
> *affronted* that I've seen levitation. You do
> everything you can to suggest that's not what
> it was. Personally, I think you're just jealous
> that I (or anyone else) have had experiences you 
> haven't, so you feel compelled to pooh-pooh the
> experiences.
> 
> > Maybe it was maybe it was just a stage magic or a sort of
> > hypnosis. 
> 
> Maybe. But it's YOUR job to prove this is so, 
> not my job. I was there, on hundreds of occasions,
> in settings as diverse as the L.A. Convention 
> Center or small meeting rooms to the desert and
> once in a corner booth at Denny's at 3 a.m. while 
> the waitress ducked out for a smoke. If you can 
> suggest to me a way that that last one could have 
> been pre-prepared and set up by a magician, I'm 
> all ears.  :-)
> 
> The bottom line is that I saw what I saw and exper-
> ienced what I experienced. WHAT it was I don't
> really know and don't really care. The fact is that
> I saw it and felt it and HAD TO DEAL WITH IT.
> 
> That's the part you have never experienced, Michael.
> That was my point in my first post. The day that
> YOU encounter some experience that just doesn't
> make sense and violates everything you believe but
> is *happening*, right in front of your eyes, is 
> the day we can have a meaningful discussion about
> this. Until that day, you are working with belief
> and with theory, and I am talking about experience.
> 
> WHAT the real nature of the experience is probably
> doesn't matter. What matters is that the seeker
> has to DEAL with it. It's like, "Oh, fuck. I just
> saw something that cannot happen. Now I have to deal 
> with this if I want to be true to my experience."
> 
> Some deal with such phenomena by trying to "explain
> them away," by calling them magic tricks or hypnosis
> or suggestion. Others just believe in them completely.
> Others, more like myself, don't know what the fuck
> they were, but to be honest with ourselves have to
> recognize that we saw and felt and experienced these
> phenomena many times, and so *something* was happen-
> ing. And we *know* that to talk about it is to risk
> ridicule, because we can never convince anyone of
> the truth of what we saw. But we manage to become
> comfortable with our own experience *anyway*.
> 
> Here's what I would do if I could levitate. I'd
> find the biggest skeptics in the world, people with
> rock-solid belief systems like yours that tell them
> that such things can't really happen. I'd listen to
> them asking me to demonstrate levitation for them
> in public, and I'd laugh them off.
> 
> HOWEVER, then I'd find out where they live or follow
> them out to the parking lot where no one else was
> around and demonstrate it for them, so completely
> that that could be no doubt in their minds what
> they were seeing. But there would be no one else
> around to "verify" their experience.
> 
> I'd consider this a FAVOR to the skeptic. By doing
> this I would be placing them in the same position 
> I am in with regard to phenomena like levitation 
> or turning invisible, only more so. In my case, 
> there were hundreds of others who experienced the
> same things I did, so that's some small comfort.
> But in the end it really comes down to what *I*
> experienced, and my personal relationship with
> that experience.
> 
> THAT is what you're missing on this subject, Michael.
> And in my opinion that is the *only* valuable thing
> about the siddhis -- forcing a seeker to evaluate
> his own personal experience and decide whether he
> is going to trust it or disbelieve it.
> 
> Being put in that position is a very valuable exper-
> ience in itself. It's the "test" that differentiates
> sit-in-their-armchairs-reading-about-someone-else's-
> experiences seekers from mystics. 
> 
> May you have such an experience someday. When you
> do, and have DEALT WITH IT, however you choose
> to deal with it, then we can discuss this further.
> Until then, you are just one more person with a 
> rock-solid belief system based on what others have
> told you. 
> 
> Get it?

This Turq is speaking in tongues again.

One day it might even sound beautiful though I doubdt it considering 
the culprits age. Listen to this and be inspired:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etHe_98Rwec&feature=related


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