Judy you said "you always got your money's worth, as it were, from
doing good, in the form of feeling better (or less bad) about
yourself--there was always some reward, as you suggest, some element
of selfishness involved, no matter how profound one's capacity for
empathy."
Surely with altruism there is a polarity from the conscious,
calculated, devious intentionality on the one hand (I better do X so
as to benefit from Y) to the more spontaneous flow of good intentions
(X just is the appropriate thing to do, even if this means discomfort
or some personal sacrifice). The fact that the latter makes one
feel "good" does not invalidate altruism, surely.. The key point is
not that some "good feeling" reward contaminates the process but that
the good intention/action came NATURALLY, as an impulse (selfishness
is firstly an impulse which is then indulged in, in spite of our
better judgement).
Just a thought/reaction I thought I'd share. Not thoroughly thought
through, of course.. but something I've noticed within myself. What
one feels naturally, spontaneously that is "good" may well be
affected by all sorts of unconscious processes and defence mechanisms
which ultimitely might seem "selfish", but then it becomes
tautological - a denial of the possibility of goodness, just a world
view based on one permissable principle, of "badness"! It doesn't
have to be like that necessarily, in my view.. but the spontaneity
and naturalness of the emerging feeling is the key.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ruthsimplicity"
> <ruthsimplicity@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ruthsimplicity"
> > > <ruthsimplicity@> wrote:
> > > <snip>
> > > > There are many who say some variant of "good works are not the
> > > > way to heaven." I think that they are wrong, or at least
wrong
> > > > in implying that good works are not a necessary part of the
> path.
> > >
> > > Martin Luther said (paraphrased): Good works do not
> > > make a good person, but a good person will do good
> > > works. Which is pretty much Maharishi's perspective.
> > > ("Good person" = enlightened person; "good works" =
> > > spontaneous right action. By [his] definition, you
> > > can't do *spontaneous* right action if you aren't
> > > enlightened.)
> >
> > Yes, I have heard this before. I think that both can be true.
> > A good person will do good works. But a person can learn goodness
> > by doing good works. Why do we teach our children to share? To
> > give? To say please and thank you? We are teaching them to do
> > good and to be good. For people with intact empathy, doing good
is
> > rewarding and encourages you to do more good. In the end, you are
> > a good person.
> >
> > But for people without any empathy, doing "good" probably is just
a
> > means to an end.
>
> I don't know that it's quite so simple.
>
> I remember in junior high school we had to write
> an essay on altruism. I said I didn't think there
> was such a thing; you always got your money's
> worth, as it were, from doing good, in the form of
> feeling better (or less bad) about yourself--there
> was always some reward, as you suggest, some
> element of selfishness involved, no matter how
> profound one's capacity for empathy.
>
> Obviously that doesn't mean doing good based on
> empathy is a *bad* thing, but it's not the same as
> "spontaneous right action" as long as there's some
> expectation of a quid pro quo, even if it's just
> getting to feel magnanimous.
>
> Of course, when I wrote the essay I didn't know
> anything about the nature of "enlightenment," but
> I think my reasoning holds up with regard to those
> in "ignorance."
>
> Luther, in any case, was thinking in terms of
> salvation, not just everyday "goodness." To him,
> a "good person" was one who had achieved
> "righteousness" through faith, and good works were
> an effect, not a cause. He even thought striving
> for righteousness through works was detrimental to
> salvation.
>
