--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "ruthsimplicity" > ruthsimplicity@ wrote: > <snip> > > I suppose I could speak more precisely as you clearly value > > precision. > > I think it's particularly important in this context. > > > The TMO back in the early 70s when I learned TM, certainly > > implied that the mantras were special secrets. There was no > > google to find out otherwise. To be more precise, you bought > > the technique which included your mantra. You listened to some > > lectures with lots of charts, brought the flowers and the > > hankie, looked at a mysterious picture and heard words in a > > language you did not understand and in a few minutes were taught > > how to meditate. You were told not to say your > > mantra out loud or to tell it to anyone. It was special. > > This last is pretty standard with mantra meditation > techniques.
>From the reading I have done here in the past hour, it appears that secrecy is not uncommon. Nevertheless, my point was that the importance of the mantra was highly emphasized and I as a person totally new to TM bought into the special significance of my mantra. Now I question its special significance. I seems like there is a lot of questioning about exactly what the mantras are all about and what sutras are all about. > > > Now the technique is sold for a significant amount of money, > > essentially elitist which violates my western democratic > > sensibilities. I also cannot separate the high charges from the > > mysteries of "where does the money go?" > > Nobody likes the money situation. But it doesn't > have anything to do with the theory of the TM > technique. Well, sorta, kinda. I have to take much of the TM claims on faith. My willingness to have faith is colored by all the baggage surrounding the TMO. But, on the other hand, the baggage is not evidence that a theory is wrong, it just makes me less inclined to trust. > > > As far as "the knowledge" being lost, I have heard a number > > of TM'ers say that knowledge of TM was once available > > throughout the world but was lost. Certainly, the specific > > mantras were not used in the western world during recorded > > history nor is there evidence of use of a TM type technique > > in the western world. > > I'm not sure that's true, actually. On the other > hand, I'm not sure "throughout the world" is true > either. And if these people meant to imply that > TM *per se* was available, that's just wrong. > > The idea that knowledge of *effortless transcending* > was widely available throughout the ancient world > seems to me to be plausible. Although as the lawyers say, just about anything is plausible, I have nothing to base a belief that effortless transcending was widely available throughout the ancient world. I have nothing to base a belief that the bija mantras that people are talking about here were used anywhere else in the world besides India. Anyone have anything to show me otherwise? I did ask if anyone was aware of effortless transcending techniques outside of TM but no clear answer as of yet. > > > I have to say (well, no, I don't have to, but I'm > gonna), your thinking on these issues seems to me > much less clear and objective than it has been in > discussions on other topics. (And no, it's not just > because we don't agree. I'm just getting a sense of > muddledness. Apparently I'm a minority of one on > that point, though.) Maybe the impression of muddledness is due to the fact that I come from a different place than you and most others here. I started meditating years ago like most here. But, after a few courses that I did not in the least enjoy, I stayed away from the TMO and mostly away from other meditators. I thought very little about TM over the years, until recently. I have cut back on the amount of work I do and have more time for reflection. So, many of the things you and others here have talked about over and over again, and thought about and read about for years, I have ignored until recently. As far as objectivity, I would say I am as objective as anyone here. We all view the world through our own experiences. If you are referring to snide comments I might have made, they have a lot to do with frustration about how TM knowledge is sold and how TM knowledge is communicated. Or not communicated. >
