--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Apr 2, 2008, at 3:28 PM, sparaig wrote: > > > Well, the 2004 study and its sister study on the same subjects was > > done on people > > reporting 24 hour a day witnessing for at least one year. > > Obviously, since they are already > > IN what the reserachers considered CC, expecting them to "enter it > > at will" is a strange > > concept. > > The key phrase here is "what the reserachers considered CC". The fact > is, if they were actually in turiyatita, since they'd be in samadhi > 24/7/365 all they need to do is demonstrate: > > --the ability to change states of consciousness at will
Yeah, the upanishads went into that in great detail as a requisite for the state... > > --the ability to hear what is going on externally to the meditator, > while EEG shows it's in deep sleep. > In fact, why would this be the case? One of hte indicators of sleep is that the thalamus shuts done connection to the outside world. Why would a condition (samadhi) where the brain reamins in a wakeful state while the thalamus shuts down connection to both the outside senses AND the inner sensory-feedback mechanism (thought) lead to some change in sleep where suddenly the thalamus is no longer doing what it used to do? > etc. > > What we have here is simple 'sleight of hand'. They redefine CC from > it's real yogic definition to what they think they can scrape up data > for, dumbing it down and redefining it. This is an extremely > deceitful and dishonest approach. > Perhaps it is dumbed down, but given it is what MMY said about the subject for 50 years, its hardly redefining it in the TM researchers' minds. You're projecting a great deal here, I think. > > > > Now, if you're looking for someone who shows breath suspension non- > > stop for a full 20 > > minute meditation period, no-one has ever shown that in TM research. > > And I suspect, given the lack of the yogic methods to achieve that, > we never will. > As I said, one woman in the Kesterson study (I think, =maybe one of the others) was shown to enter the state for a minute or so at a time, for a total of 60% of the meditation period. > > > > The closest is a woman who learned TM about 50 years ago when she > > was a kid (Helen > > Olson I suspect) who showed breath suspension periods that in > > total, lasted about 60 > > percent of a 10 minute meditation session, but they were only a > > minute or so at a time. > > Yes, those examples were from the Olson daughter I am told by a > friend of hers. So you're aware of someone showing 60% of her time spent in the meditation state and you still say the above. > > > > > > >> That's not of course to say that TM isn't relaxing--it is. And > >> relaxing is good for most people. > >> > > > > > > Tm isn't always relaxing. > > For me it was...other than some brief kundalini episodes. > You've lived a quiet life, I think. Lawson
