Comment below: **
--- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I recall a guy on our sidhis course who talked about seeing > > Gurudev floating in lotus > > > position on a lottos blossom floating in a fountain of cherry > > juice. The Sidhis Course Administrator blinked a few times and > > carefully said "we might chalk that up to 'beautiful > > > unstressing...'" > > > > > > > > > Lawson > > > > > Nice image!...sounds like the Sidhis Course Administrator didn't > > have a clue. > > This exchange lies at the heart of one of my favorite questions: By > what criteria do we evaluate the validity of subjective experiences? > The person on the course with the Guru Dev Float with a cherry on top > was using the authority of the administrators, and presumably > Maharishi who trained them, to judge if their subjective experience > was valid. In my experience in the movement there always seemed to be > a pretty strong skeptical angle taken on such experiences with details > like that. But if the person was to make it a bit more abstract: > > I experienced my self welling up like a fountain of sweet golden bliss > and the fullness began to manifest into the vibrations of the Veda... > > The chances that this person would get the big "attaboy" from the > powers that be would be much higher. (I think Rajas and other mighty > mites also get a pass on detailed Guru Dev, or now Maharishi, Zombie > experiences. They could tell everyone that Guru Dev played ping pong > with them that morning and the whole movement would gasp a collective > "Wow, that's heavy. You are soooo special. Would you bless my > beads...no? How about blessing my Blackberry?" > > So can others evaluate such experiences? Do people think that > Maharishi had a magical way of knowing what someone was experiencing > inside? Did he or his minions just give you a once over to see if you > appeared to be a dipshit, and if you gave off dipshit vibes they > assumed it was phony? There seemed to be an inordinate number of hot > chicks whose experiences got a positive nod...celestial vision, that > sort of thing. Does hotness give you a pass? > > I've had my own experiences, I know how compelling they feel. I've > taken the position that the mind is a wonderful thing and capable of > all sorts of detailed compelling experiences, but that we generally > suck at distinguishing fact from fantasy with subjective experiences. > > Any perspective input is welcome. And my premise is that making such > distinctions in life really does matter. > **snip to end** Curtis, my (partial and somewhat tangential) take on this is that whether or not the experience is available to any objective confirmation is one thing, but the value of the experience to the subject is what's real, regardless. In other words, the experience of something red in a dream doesn't mean that the red object of the dream has/had any objective reality but I know red when I see red and the experience of redness in the dream itself was real and to the degree that experiencing redness that one more time, or experiencing that particular hue (maybe a red that isn't available in the objective world) has implications, either small or large, to me an an experiencer and a knower of anything. So it always does seem to come down to how you operate or express whatever your "knowingness" is in the world. In my own head I keep coming back to New.Morning's definition of any enlightenment worth having is one that generates positive effects both in the individual and in the individual's sphere of influence (and therefore, by extrapolation, to the world at large). If you keep getting great experiences but operate primarily as a shitheel, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're not merely witnessing that reality (and consequently enlightened under that criterion), but so what? The Tao Te Ching seems to give the best traditional/cultural guide as to how to evaluate a "superior" person that gives me a sense of the value of higher states of consciousness for me. It's not inconsistent with what Maharishi taught nor with Advaita, but clearly relates that someone who knows the Tao flows with circumstances as they develop and utilizes everything that comes his/her way with grace and kindness and intelligence. Patience, forebearance, humility, friendliness, compassion, happiness -- good qualities, all, and what I desire for myself and others as the anticipated and growing fruits of awakening. Or even as my old SRM lapel pin has inscribed around the little bas-relief image of Guru Dev: "Peace, Energy, Happiness" -- that's good enough for me.
