I don't know that much about hypnosis but i was surprised and in intrigued by some of the things that one of the list participants used to talk about. (was that At_man? I forget who it was). And "whoever" appeared to make a connection of hynosis and NLP. I looked itnto that a bit, listen to some Richard Bandler tapes (he is quite a characer) and surmised there are some things of substance in NLP, probably a lot more than I had yet uncovered. Long story short, I am open to the possibility that there are some powerful individual and group methods to instill suggestions and shape behavior and perceptions in far deeper ways than is common knowledge.
Therefore, while I am not making a case that Lenz used some advance form of group suggestion / manipulation, I am certainly open to that possibility at this sketchy point in my understanding of what he was about. Such would explain why some "saw" it and others didn't, and why the stars appeared to move, when they didn't. Personally, I am open to the possibility of levitation and other siddhis. I am not trying to protect some cherised / limited worldview by raising "simpler" expalnations of Lenz's "performances". For example, I tend to believe Yogananda's accounts of levitation. Regarding Jesus walking on water and all, its certainly a possibility, but I think there is 2000 years of heavy myth-making and politics in christianity that I tend to take most christian doctrine with a grain of salt -- and sometimes mirth. Generally, I think its within human capability to do sidhi-type things, but I am naturally skeptical about individual attainments and claims until demonstrated in a context where illusion and delusion can be ruled out. --- In [email protected], Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > People often pull out the "hypnotize" hypothesis without much of an understanding of hypnosis. They don't do it to understand anything, but to simply deny what the other person experienced. I don't place you in this category, Akasha, but there are plenty of others. I doubt very much, from his description of these encounters with Rama, that Unc was "hypnotized." > > akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Peter Sutphen > wrote: > > When someone experiences something that doesn't fit our concepts we > say, "well of course, you were hypnotized." And that of course > explains everything. > > Who does that? > > On the other hand when someone makes a very bold claim, most prudent > people reserve judgement as they inquire about simpler solutions to > the claim -- Ocham's Razor seeming to often hold true. > > Your post and some of Unc's earlier ones today appear to imply that if > one does not accept a bold claim at face value, then they are > deficient, can't reach out beyond their existing concepts and are > stuck within a worldview inertia. > > For example, regarding Lenz, given that: > - followers saw stars move, but clearly they did not > > - not all followers saw the sidhis -- which is odd, its kind of > hard to miss something that dramatic if it was happening "out there" > > - followers possible stared long periods at Lentz, or meditated > on him, prior to seeing sidhis > > - Lentz is alleged to have given som students hallucegens > > - Lentz was deceiptful in other realms > > it seems prudent to not immediately swallow hook line and sinker a > bold claim made by some "stranger" before examining other other > explanations for the "perceptions". > > Reseving judgement, in itself, has nothing to do with deficient > flexibility in conceptual matters. Indeed, guillibility, not lack of > conceptual flexibility, seems to be a strong trait inherent in many > TMO long-timers, to a higher degree than the general population, IMO. > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Discover Yahoo! > Find restaurants, movies, travel & more fun for the weekend. Check it out! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
