--In other words, mind is a secondary witness to Witnessing; a fact even the Neo-Advaitins can't deny. (some mind-entity - illusory or not - is making various claims). What is the value of having those experiences.? If there is value in such experiences why aren't those experiencing "It" shouting from the rooftops?
- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" <reavisma...@...> wrote: > > "I also acknowledge that I have an aspect of my mind that is an > unchanging witness of my personality. It is an artifact of > consciousness and a part of being human if you choose to spend enough > time to notice it. I'll even acknowledge that meditating helps you > notice this aspect of your mind more clearly." > > ** > > This quote (above), is what I'm interested in. The assertion that > the "unchanging witness" is an "aspect of the mind" and "an artifact > of consciousness", however, is still unsettled for me. I can > understand why you'd assert that, but I don't understand how you > could support the assertion. > > And I'm not saying that you're wrong in the assertion, only that I > don't know myself. At some point, it became clear that awareness > always is (and was), but somehow I hadn't noticed it "before". > Meditation and other tools apparently assisted the discovery of it. > Awareness persisted in sleep and during episodes of unconsciousness > resulting from injury or illness. However, since at no time, did the > body fall away, there's no telling whether awareness persists or not > when the body dies. (But it "feels" like it does.) > > It seems clear that the Eastern traditions and lineages have found > the apparent persistence of awareness to have value, and have > constructed some elaborate and some convincing arguments to support > both the belief in its value and to stimulate individuals to gain > that experience in their own lives. Whether or not those traditions > have it right, or are merely touting an experience that feels good, > or feels right, but doesn't have any larger, transpersonal value is > still in question. > > For myself, I've taken the position that there's enough of value to > continue to experiment with consciousness to get a clearer sense of > what it all means. Eastern traditions (including Maharishi's), > mystical philosophies, and the many insightful posts on FFL have been > excellent adjuncts to that continued exploration. > > Thanks, Curtis. > > Marek > > ** > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung <no_reply@> wrote: > > "Identity is non-physical" > > > with the intent to reach a deeper clarity about it? Or do you > think > > > I'm just slinging Advaita shit that can safely be dismissed? Does > ya > > > got twelve in the juryroom still? > > > > My identity is not physical. It is tied to the physical so that > when > > the physical becomes worm food I have a suspicion that I'm not going > > to be able to remember the Brazilian Samba chords I learned on my > > guitar this morning. I can't even maintain consciousness when a > doctor > > pumps a white liquid into my veins for a little fireside chat with > the > > interior of my colon. > > > > I also acknowledge that I have an aspect of my mind that is an > > unchanging witness of my personality. It is an artifact of > > consciousness and a part of being human if you choose to spend > enough > > time to notice it. I'll even acknowledge that meditating helps you > > notice this aspect of your mind more clearly. > > > > But making a case for it being the transpersonal basis for all > > creation is just imposing a religious assertion on top of it. It is > > making a bigger deal about it than I think it deserves. But I could > > be wrong. But so far all the magical stuff claimed about this state > > of mind has not shown up. Has it? Maharishi was a charismatic > > interesting guy and all but he didn't show up as having special > powers > > to me, beyond what an eccentric relentless self promoter like Donald > > Trump exhibits. The Donald sleeps as little as Maharishi did too! > > > > > > > > > > > > "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > > > > > > > enlightenment is that state of consciousness in which a > person no > > > > > longer identifies with, and gets lost in, the objects of > > perception. > > > > > > > > > You know this sounds like a made-up problem to solve. I never > met > > > anyone who was lost in or identified with the objects of > perception. > > > Someone would have an unimaginable pathological lack of self > awareness > > > for this to be a problem. > > > > > > > > I mean this seriously because it is one of the fundamental > > > > presuppositions of Maharishi's teaching. Can anyone here > remember > > > > when this was a problem in your life before TM? I honestly > can't. > > > > > > Curtis, > > > > > > This is the crux issue: what is the nature of Identity? > > > > > > I think your suspicions are well founded only if you ignore that > the > > > mind itself is an object of consciousness. Every thought- feeling > (the > > > mind) is a tar baby that allures Identity to become its soul. > Moment > > > by moment WE INVEST in objects. We enter them. We identify with > > > them. We affirm their existence like dying folks in the desert > > > crawling towards a mirage of an oasis. > > > > > > Each thought impossibly grabs us effortlessly -- we rubberneck > them > > > like roadside accidents . . . unable to avert our gazing. > > > > > > When I buy a new car, woe unto anyone who comes up to it and > bangs it > > > with a fist -- I will feel pain I tells ya! That's my Identity > you're > > > pounding on there bub! > > > > > > Just so, being a narcissist, I'm happy to report that each of my > > > thoughts is like a new Ferrari being delivered to my driveway. > > > > > > Curtis, I keep banging on your door about Identity -- am I merely > > > droning at this stage, or do you see enough wiggle room such that > you > > > are examining this assertion of mine that "Identity is non- > physical" > > > with the intent to reach a deeper clarity about it? Or do you > think > > > I'm just slinging Advaita shit that can safely be dismissed? Does > ya > > > got twelve in the juryroom still? > > > > > > Edg > > > > > >
