--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltabl...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan <no_reply@> wrote: > > This shifting of the topic from teaching TM IN the schools to a general > discussion of religious diversity and appreciation of multiculturalism is > missing my positive appreciation of the religious nature of Maharishi's > teaching even as an atheist. > > I am pro separation of church and state and believe that religions try to > blur the line to advance their agenda in schools, TM and creationism as > examples of religion under secular veneers. > > But outside the classroom and government agencies I have always enjoyed the > historical context of Maharishi's version of his religious beliefs. Both > when I believed that Vyasa was 3/4 Vishnu and was blue skinned, and now when > I see him as a character from an elaborate mythology. > > The TM puja is one of the most beautiful songs I have learned. I now use it > to blow Indian taxi driver's minds rather than in the serious context of > teaching TM, but I still love the song. > > I am fascinated by religious beliefs and will always be. I seek them out to > understand human's better. So I don't want my opposition to TM being peddled > as a non religious practice in schools to be some kind of statement that I > hate all things TM. Obviously the belief system still intrigues me. I may > have a much snarkier take on the whole thing now but my delight in hearing > about the Rajas is no less joy to me now then when I took it all seriously. > I'm a "see the pearly white teeth on the dog" kind of guy. > > But keep holy communions and TM meditations at home where they belong. If > you want to teach kids to meditate in schools to see if it settles down the > little monsters,(it might) then don't start the process by invoking the name > of a Hindu god in a Hindu Puja before filling their heads full of religious > beliefs during their meditation class. Find a meditation style that doesn't > need this religious belief system support. Is that really too much to ask?
I am all for offering that. But I don't see any violation of the constitution Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; if TM is also taught. Or Buddhist medtitation or christian cnetering prayer or jewish kabala or sufi swirling. As options. If its mandatory -- I may have issue with it, depending on the context. Is the DLF a mandatory thing ALL kids must take to graduate? If not, what is the issue? If TM rubs some sensitive religious type the wrong way, they should not take the course. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mar 25, 2009, at 10:37 AM, grate.swan wrote: > > > > > > > Does it upset you when you are a guest at a sumptuous meal and the > > > > host offers grace before the meal. I may be shallow, but I focus > > > > on the meal and not on my hosts particular beliefs or traditions. > > > > And I don't somehow feel tainted or duped. > > > > > > Only if it is in a public school, in the context we're talking of here. > > > > > > > > > > > Thanksgiving. Is that a religious holiday? Am I being secretly > > > > taught a religion if I take the holiday off, and eat a thanksgiving > > > > meal? Who were the pilgrims offering thanks to? Oh my God! It was > > > > God! Run! > > > > > > I don't celebrate Thanksgiving as a religious holiday, I celebrate in > > > as an exercise in food materialism. > > > > > > > > And they why do you deny the same freedom to others to take what they want > > from religious traditions and use it in a secular way? > > > > Somehow you can use a holiday based on Thanksgiving to God an not get > > tainted by anything religious. In fact you use it for the antithesis of > > religion -- gluttony. Yet you don't want to ban thanksgiving from schools. > > > > So why not provide the same freedom to students who may want to use > > meditation techniques that stem from a religious tradition but they use it > > in totally non religious ways? > > > > I don't see the distinction. Except that one option suits you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Curtis doesn't like me to equate the fruit of meditation with > > > > actual fruit. And I am sure I am transgressing his beliefs with my > > > > meal analogy. But to me, it fits quite well. I am getting something > > > > quite secular -- a meal -- a useful meditation technique -- at the > > > > HUGE cost of listening to someone give thanks prior to the "meal". > > > > I don't get the outrage. > > > > > > It's a religious technique that invokes gods and goddesses and > > > worships a guru as a god--it therefore violates the separation of > > > church and state--there are a host of other issues such as with > > > charging the taxpayers exorbitant fees for meditation, which can > > > easily be taught for free and the destructive nature of aspects of > > > the TM org, side effects, phony and biased research, etc.. Body > > > modification freaks also feel that insertion of needles can induce > > > pleasurable trance states. Let's not forget to invite them. And > > > voudoun trance rites often involve the sacrificing of small animals > > > to the Loa: VM, Voudoun Meditation. Yes, you too can enjoy an > > > effortless technique that takes you 'down to the crossroads' without > > > ever having to leave your chair. > > > > > > Perhaps you should look into what the actual goal of Hindu mental > > > ishta-devata meditation is, since you don't seem clear on what it > > > actually is. > > > > > > Can you name one common place you would find the Hindu 16-fold offering? > > > > > > > > > > > I practiced TM for some time. I don't know much about Hinduism. My > > > > Indian friends sort of tolerate my delusion that somehow I have > > > > something in common with them and their religion. But I can't be a > > > > Hindu in traditional Hinduism. White boys not allowed. So why would > > > > another white boy or worse white girl -- who can never be a hindu, > > > > teaching something to another white boy who can never be a hindu, > > > > somehow make teaching TM a religion. > > > > > > I know of numerous people who became Hindus--some have even received > > > the sacred thread. > > > > > > > > > > > And don't even get me started on Christmas or Easter. If schools > > > > give these as holidays, aren't they complicit in some great > > > > religious conspiracy to dupe our poor cloistered youth? These > > > > holidays CLEARLY have religious roots. > > > > > > They're just appealing to the majority of their students I guess, but > > > that is an interesting objection. Of course none of their religious > > > rites would appear on campus if they are absent. > > > > > > > > > > > No more Easter egg hunts on the White House lawn. Clearly a > > > > violation of church and state. Not only that, it has roots in pagan > > > > religions! Pagan! As do Christmas trees. No more lighting of the > > > > Christmas tree on TV at Rokerfella square or the White House. > > > > > > Easter eggs to not appear in the Christian bible--unless you happen > > > to have a very different bible than I do! > > > > > > > > > > > And the damn World Series. Those religious nut players actually > > > > give thanks to GOD before the game. The horror! Our poor kids! > > > > Getting duped again by the omnipresent religious conspiracy. > > > > > > > > (I know you did not explicitly bring up some the points I am > > > > riffing on. ) > > > > > >
