--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jst...@...> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], Duveyoung <no_reply@> wrote: > <snip> > > > > To me, this thread is woefully needing a scholar to > > > > come forth and do proper battle with Vaj about what > > > > constitutes "effort." He's given some very clear > > > > statements that might be right or wrong, but they're > > > > precise and draw a well defined line in the sand. > > > > Others are merely kicking sand on his line instead of > > > > drawing their own lines and defending that their lines > > > > are more apt drawn. > > > > > > That's also bullshit. You haven't been reading what > > > we've been saying with any attention. > > > > Again with the "bullshit" word. Come on, Judy, haven't > > I been behaving well lately? Haven't I held back the > > personal attacks? Why attack my integrity with such > > vitriol? > > It's not your "integrity," it's your reading > comprehension. "Bullshit" here just means "nonsense," > not dishonesty. > > > For the record, I do think you've tried more than > > most to go toe to toe with Vaj, but you are so > > overwrought and obviously intent on besmirching his > > personality instead of competently countering his > > statements, that you are failing as a debater. > > Bullshit. > > Here's my first post to him in this thread, which you > apparently missed: > > --- In [email protected], Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > <snip> > > Really, in terms of the technical description of how > > TM is practiced in the initial technique--it's not > > truly like 'any other thought', as one is enjoined to > > maintain mindfulness (or smriti to use the actual > > technical term) both as the mantra first arises (waiting > > or "monitoring" for the mantra to "appear") and one must > > be mindful to return to the mantra--otherwise one would > > potentially end up never returning to the mantra, but > > remain distracted for the entire session! > > One isn't "enjoined" to maintain "mindfulness" > in TM. > > The instruction is, "When you become aware that > you're not thinking the mantra..." That thought, > that one isn't thinking the mantra, arises of its > own accord, just like any other thought. In my > experience, that thought itself is what triggers > a return to the mantra; the mantra is the very > next thought to arise, automatically (in my case, > at this point it's not entirely clear that they're > even two separate thoughts). >
"Don't think about pink elephants" invariably leads to thinking about pink elephants.... And as I point out, one can think about pink elephants and not even be aware of it at the time, only later. Or do people REALLY think that they drive the car and make every single correct turn, gesture and action required to get from point A to point B without ever "thinking" about it? If you DO, then you are insisting its possible to meditate without any effort at all. If you do NOT, then you're insisting that the effort was there but you just don't remember it. Either way, prove there was effort... L.
