--- In [email protected], "shanti2218411" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --I have provided psychotherapy to hundreds of people with a dx of
> some type of depression( there are multiple types of depression eg
> Major Depressive Disorder,Dysthymia, etc).There are numerous possible
> causes for depression eg developmental,biological,enviormental.The
> state of the art re understanding the basis and/or treatment of
> depression is still pretty basic and will probably remain so for the
> forseeable future.One of the most powerful elements of any effective
> treatment whether psychiatric or medical is HOPE.The instillation of
> hope will frequently evoke the placebo response.The latter is a real
> psycho-physiological phenomenon(a good non-technical book on the
> subject is "Remembered Wellness" by Herbet Benson).There is no doubt
> that much of the reason why medications work(as well as psychotherapy)
> is due to the placebo effect.So it is likely that both scientology,
> which frankly is in many respects a form of psychotherapy,and
> medication help a significant # of people because it gives them hope
> which then leads to changes in behavior and mood.These changes might
> also result in changes in brain chemistry. The placebo effect has been
> shown repeatedly to potentially exert profound effects on
> physiology.As to whether there is any therapeutic (vs placebo)effect
> for medications my clinical expereince is that there is for a subset
> of depressed patients especially individuals who have major depressive
> disorder.Kevin

Thanks for your input Kevin. Though the placebo effect may 
potentially exert profound effects on  physiology, it doesn't mean it
always does. Hard to believe that all SSRI users, many who modulate
usage to find appropriate dose, and or try various variants, cannot
pick up direct physiological effects from the drug itself as dosage
and type changes. Or are you you suggesting SSRI's don't have a direct
physiologic effect? Or that they do, but it is generally not relevant
to depression type symptoms? Hard to beleive either with 100's of
studies countering both points.

I am sure the placebo effect is pronounced for some. Particularly a
Hawthorne type related effectt where patients respond to attention and
caring -- from or implied from the therapy. I would think that talk
therapy would have a far more powerful placebo / Hawthorne effect than
pills. How much hope is really instilled in knowing there is a 50/50
chance you may be taking a pill that is a sugar pill?  Vs. a 100%
situation of regular conselling with a caring professional. Yet the
summaries I have seen, and at least a handful of people I have talked
to who have had both (antecdotal, and not conclusive, I admit)
indicate strongly that SSRIs are far more effective than talk therapy
alone. If its all hope inducing placebo effects, the effects should be
similar across all therapies. Or even higher for talk therapy since it
is 100% and has the human touch  / caring factor. But this is not the
case. So, again, it doesn't  make much sense to me that most SSRI
effects are placebo.

Third, many report physiologic side effects of SSRIs, particularly
sexual. Often, those these can be mitigated with dosage and type.
Clearly subjects are not going to experience a placebo effect for a
generally negative side effect. Thus the sexual side effects indicate
a direct physiologic response in the body from the drug. It seems
strange, given this direct response, that then the beneficial 
responses can be attributed to palcebo effects. Doesn't make sense to
me. Does it to you?

Since you are not a prescibing physician or psychiatrist, do you see
the direct before and after responses, and real time responses to
changes in dosage and type of medication? Do prescibing doctors share
with you the full medical work up of the patient so that you are aware
of all the responses to the medication? It would seem that a
prescribing physician would have a better view and ability to discern
placebo and direct effects. 

If hope and palcebo effects are the major impact of your work, how do
you view your profession, your contribution? It would seem that any
caring figure would be as effective as your psychotherapy if its
mostly placebo / hope effects. If that is how you really feel, why not
hand your patient load over to a caring grandmother and reduce rates
by 90%? (I am not suggesting you do that, because I dont believe the
placebo effect is as prevalent as you appear to believe. But if you
really do believe it is widely prevalent, why are you still
practicing? You are a person of integrity, per your past posts, so i
can't believe that you feel your contribution is minimal. If it is
not, there must be more than the placebo effect to your work, and
presumably SSRIs. 

 







To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!' 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 


Reply via email to