Thanks for posting this Barry. I've been too busy to engage in much discussion, but I find the observation useful, and have mentioned it to several people in discussions today. It reminds me of Byron Katie, who encourages people to question everything they regard as absolute truth.
on 7/11/05 3:45 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm fascinated enough with this subject to make > it its own thread, to see if others here are > equally fascinated. > >>>>> See, we maybe conditioned to stop the car when the traffic >>>>> lights turn red. You can provisionally accept it, validate >>>>> it as true, based on observation etc. The conditioning is >>>>> that you connect two facts, the >>>>> red traffic lights, and the need to stop the car. >>>> >>>> But that's a different type of conditioning; >>>> that's more like Pavlov's dogs. I was talking >>>> (and thought you were talking) about becoming >>>> convinced that something is true. >>> >>> But its all connected. You experience something, and then you are >>> being told something about that experience. (Or are otherwise no >>> need for all the lectures!) What you know, reinforces the >>> experience in a certain way. Then the reinforced experience >>> reinforces your belief about it again. You cannot isolate the two. >> >> It seems terribly important *to* the conditioned ego >> to believe that it hasn't been conditioned, that it >> has thought up (or "verified") all these concepts >> that have been taught to it on its own. The bottom >> line, however, is that it rarely, if ever, deviates >> from the concepts taught to it. And also feels the >> compulsion to argue their obvious "truth" with others. > > My approach to the subject of "conditioning" has a > lot to do with my time with Rama. Whatever else he > might have been, he was a master at channeling and > "broadcasting" light (or whatever it was) so strongly > that it just blew away *all* of your conditioning. > You'd go to the desert with him convinced you had > pretty much everything figured out, and the next day > you'd awaken essentially *empty*, with not a certainty > left in you. About *anything*. It was as if the slate > had been wiped clean. > > That's a *very* disconcerting process to go through. > There is very little to hang onto, and very little > self left to even want to. The *only* thing left to > cling to is Self. > > And, when repeated over and over for years, this process > has the definite advantage (or disadvantage...however you > see it) of leaving one very suspicious of the concept > of "truth." When you've seen your own "truths" blasted > to bits and revealed as merely passing relative truths > hundreds of times, you don't tend to develop the same > attachment to the *latest* "truth" that some seekers do. > Or that's my experience, anyway. > > The bottom line for me, when I encounter a new spiritual > trip, is to try to suss out how strongly this group > believes it knows the "truth." If the group has a *very* > strong set of dogma, and its practitioners display a > *very* strong attachment to the idea that they "know the > truth," what I inquire into next is the subjective "pace > of change" that these practitioners report as a result > of their practice. > > What I've found (and others should feel free to contra- > dict me if you've found otherwise) is that, in general, > the slower the pace of spiritual change in the seekers, > the stronger the clinging to dogma and the belief that > they "know the truth" is in those seekers. > > And the opposite -- in groups whose adherents seem to > experience a very *rapid* pace of change, in which they > see what they consider to be radical spiritual progress > on a daily or at least a weekly basis, there is very > *little* tendency to cling to dogma or certainty about > what constitutes "truth." It's as if "truth" is allowed > in these latter groups to "flow," to be a dynamic process > that changes every day, as the seeker changes. > > Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
