Thanks for the come back Edg. I guess my somewhat lame response might be that, people don't always respond the way you expect them to respond. The press doesn't always chase the stories you expect them to chase. The government doesn't alwasy pounce on all the odd occurances you might expect them to pounce on. Whether Rama leviatated, gave the illusion of leviating, or hypnotized people into thinking he leviatated, I don't know. The two interviews I read by the guy piqued a cursory interest on my part to learn more about him. Perhaps someone new will come along who can demonstrate these abilities, and then we might have a better idea about Rama.
You seem to be a big fan of Ramana Maharishi, and I guess he symbolizes all the traditional attributes we think of when we consider an enlightened person. But I suspect that many more of the enlightened have plenty of quirks. I've never really checked out Ramana Maharishi. I think after following the Maharishi, and reading the biographies of Yogananda, Muktananda, Nityananda, Ramakrishna, Vivekenanda, to name a few, (inspiring all) I just sort of ran that course of thought. I think I got launched, and now I enjoy whatever life throws at me on a daily basis. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung <no_re...@...> wrote: > > Lurk, > > Thanks for the challenge. The "I saw levitation" statement is just for starters, but so much that Barry says toggles my decision maker with red alerts that he is a poser and a world class wannabe. > > Yes, I think I'm inserting my own agenda when I characterize Barry, so it's tough to sort out, but I think I could go before a jury of his peers (care to guess who would be a peer of Barry? -- I'd start with Andy Dick....) and convince them that he was a name dropper who brags about having been with so many well-known folks that he must be a rich jet-setter doing nightly parties and hobnobbing on the fast track or, my best bet, a liar. > > A few questions: > > Did he see or did he delude himself that he saw the act of levitation by Rama while he, Barry, was but one of many co-witnesses on lots of occasions? > > Was Rama able to mass-hypnotize a crowd or did he actually levitate, or did he pull of a stage illusion, or were his followers so ninny-headed that all Rama had to do was talk about levitation and later all the followers were gossiping as if it had actually happened, or did Rama have the power to shift folks into other dimensions ala Don Juan smacking Carlos around, or, did Barry lie? > > Possible answers: > > It feels like a lie to me. Sorry, but Barry's such a weasel in so many ways that given a 50/50 chance of him being a liar, I'm tilting to the he's-guilty side every time....sue me. That there may be others telling the same lies would be a gimme if you ask me. What about any cult doesn't support and nurture suchlike? A cult is a massive buy-in to a POV that is defended as an absolute, and if Rama had typical cult followers, why of course we'd hear all about miracles just like we have had in the TMO cult with our Maharishi in two places at once stories etc. > > For Barry to repeatedly restate that he saw levitation, (while usually couching the statements with "I don't know how it happened but that's what my experience was.") is a sign of a wannabe trying to get himself seen as someone who's been there and done that and proudly jaded about all manner of experiences that ordinary folk seldom encounter. If he was having this levitation experience as often as he says he did, then, gotta say it, NO HUMAN BEING could resist those experiences such that one was not converted into a true believer. For instance, if Maharishi had even once levitated in front of but a small crowd, the domes would be filled to brimming even now. I'd be in them. Would you? > > For Barry to say that levitation was seen by so many others just has to be a lie in that that experience would be so powerfully transformative that there would have to be a significant movement even today to glorify Rama...true believers can rationalize, ya know....his suicide would be turned into (he had to get to heaven quick cuz God wanted him for a special project on another planet and this followers were going to have to make due without him in person -- like that.) > > This world is hard up for miracles and everyone has a camera. No photos, no videos .... give me a break. Would you believe any cult member about any miracles unless the extraordinary claims were backed up by extraordinary proofs? Same deal here, and for Barry to strut around wearing the tee shirt for such unsubstantiated crappola is why I call him an odious thug. He's not even as believable as a UFO spotter. Hell even crop circles have a better chance at being possibly more real than levitation by anyone anywhere on the planet. > > In fact, let's lay it out in real world terms: if I can levitate, I'm going to keep it secret or I'll be dissected by the U.S. Government to see if they can weaponize my abilities. BAM, done with the debate right there. > > If Rama had had any abilities, he'd have been hustled off to a detention center in short order as a threat to national security. For him to have just sauntered around and to have been popping off the ground here and there and never to have been tossed into the back seat of a big black car by the men in black simply defies reality. The fact that Rama is said to have levitated many times is the tell -- it had to be a trick of some sort that the bad guys would figure out in short order, or, my bet, Barry's a liar. > > When I was gung-ho about Y2K, I did all the work -- built up supplies, moved to a favorable place to hunker down, bought gold and guns, and also bought into the mindset -- and even with all that psychic investment, by Oct of 1999, I knew Y2K fears had to be unreal, cuz all the signs were pointing still to normalcy. Those in the know would have made the cost of gold rocket upwards, stocks would have tanked, etc. Just so, where's the hoopla that would certainly have happened in the media if Rama was being so frequently miraculous? Where's his followers wearing sandwich boards and walking the streets proclaiming his prowess? Never happened for the same reason Maharishi was never kidnapped by the CIA -- there was no mojo, no beef, no nothin of any merit. > > Best I can do is say that maybe Barry had vivid dream states and now is confused about what really happened -- a very real psychological common event for all persons. > > As for his reporting suchlike herein being called brave, well, then so is Nab being brave in the same manner -- doesn't take much courage to be a loon. > > His repetition is probably husbanded by him solely because levitation has such power in our minds that he cannot help himself to tweak our noses that he's seen what all of us have waited decades for the TMO to produce, and then tossed it all aside as a worthless bauble to him -- that makes us jerkwads slavering for titillation to his joe-know-it-all in his mind. > > Nah, Barry's a liar. Pants on ground. > > Edg > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000" steve.sundur@ wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > Has anyone taken Barry's assertions serious enough to even google the > > issue? You'd think that with thousands of followers, there'd be all > > sorts of sites still dedicated to adoring Rama and that, online, there > > would be ample citations of levitation to point at. Got any? > > > > > > Not worth the googling to me cuz any levitation in front of hundreds > > of folks has to produce at least a 30% bystander-to-full-believer rate > > of conversion, and those folks would be doing puja even now based on > > that evidence. Where are they? And why is Barry so willing to spread the > > news of levitation being a real phenomonum and yet he is no longer a > > true believer? Edg, can you show me where Barry is pushing the agenda of > > Lenz's leviation being a real phenomenom. From what I can see, he is > > just reporting what he experienced. You got a problem with that? Do you > > see him trying to convince anyone that it must be real. I don't. And > > not backing down from what he experienced in the face of a lot of > > ridicule from people around here. Something wrong with that? > > Levitation, if real, is a very serious proof that the levitator, while > > not necessarily enlightened, has mastered a siddhi that can only come > > from having purified his mind to an almost perfect degree, and such a > > mind would most likely be filled with deep insights and wisdom. > > > > > > Keep in mind that a few loaves and fishes did the same to manifest > > true believers. So, any leader who could get even a 100 followers is > > certain to have cameras always around; brought by those who would make > > the leader into a idol. To have levitation witnessed once and not > > captured on film is understandable; to have this happen many times and > > not have at least one true believer be there ready for the moment with a > > camera is not understandable. Hell, to imagine Barry not lugging a > > camera around, given his addiction to name dropping, is a gimme. Where's > > yer photos, Barry? > > > > > > When Barry weasels on this like he did by using "cameras can't see > > auras," as his reason for no photographic evidence, then, hey, what's > > new in the wonderful world of rationalization? > > > > > > Let's face it: Barry could be sitting in his underwear in his Mom's > > basement in Gary, Indiana; a 400 pound pock marked puter geek who makes > > it look like his posts come from Europe enough to fool Alex; a stack of > > pizza boxes next to him testifies why his keyboard is covered with the > > gunk that can only come from pizza grease and dust commingling over > > years; a pile of Kleenex tissues overflowing his basket that's next to > > his bottle of Exxon Jumbo Lubricant; yellow teeth almost hidden by a > > foul mortar of plaque; and let's complete this imagined scenario by > > picturing him forming his nose mucus into small Judy voodoo dolls as he > > awaits her next post. > > > > > > Just sayin! > > > > > > Edg > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "wayback71" wayback71@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "WillyTex" <willytex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tell us the truth. Were you hallucinating > > > > > > > > when you saw the levitation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > RD: > > > > > > Too bad all those thousands of people who > > > > > > experienced Rama levitating pre-mobile phone > > > > > > days didn't upload a video of him hovering in > > > > > > mid-air... > > > > > > > > > > > Too bad Rama levitating in front of thousands > > > > > of people isn't mentioned by any of the Rama > > > > > followers. This feat isn't even mentioned in > > > > > Mark's book about Rama. But being high on drugs > > > > > is mentioned over forty times. Go figure. > > > > > > > > > > Even Mr. Lenz himself doesn't claim this siddhi > > > > > in his book, 'Surfing the Himalayas'. Apparently > > > > > it's much more fun to use a snowboard than to > > > > > levitate. Floating face down in the water with > > > > > a dog collar around his neck seems to be Fred's > > > > > favorite magical show. > > > > > > > > > > Hovering in mid-air isn't even listed on Rama's > > > > > own website where it mentions that Rama is a > > > > > 'Black Belt'. > > > > > > > > > > I'd suppose, if thousands of people saw Rama do > > > > > hovering or turning rooms into golden light, at > > > > > least more than one would have reported it by > > > > > now. It's not mentioned by any of the former > > > > > Lenz students who went over to Franklin Jones. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I had a friend, a former TM teacher now deceased, who was > > a student of Rama's around the time Barry must have been there. This > > friend also talked of seeing Rama levitate on many occasions. He also > > saw him move clouds around in an outside gathering and I think he said > > Rama could make himself invisible (not sure on this one). This friend, > > Jack, did not know exactly how the levitation or other things occurred, > > but he was very certain he had seen them. As I recall, the outside > > events were in the desert, so it would have been pretty difficult to fix > > up the props of a magician. > > > > > > > > The last time I saw Jack, perhaps a year before he died, he was > > still involved with Rama. But he refused to hug me hello, did not even > > want to shake hands, and had some sort of compulsion about washing his > > hands several times during dinner. I was never certain if those were > > Rama's rules or his own problems. > > > > > > > > > Apparently some people are very much prone to > > > > > suggestion. Turq is a case in point. If he had > > > > > not posted so much misinformation about the > > > > > Maharishi, he would be more believable. > > > > > > > > > > But, since he has fibbed so much, who would want > > > > > to believe him now about the levitation siddhi? > > > > > > > > > > Titles of interest: > > > > > > > > > > 'Take Me for a Ride > > > > > Coming of Age in a Destructive Cult > > > > > By Mark Laxer > > > > > Outer Rim Press, 1993 > > > > > > > > > > 'Surfing the Himalayas' > > > > > A Spiritual Adventure' > > > > > By Frederick Lenz > > > > > St. Martin's Griffin, 1996 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
