--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jst...@...> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@> > wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > You've given too much thought on this topic to just blow it > > off so I'll dig in. > > Well, I suppose you've given a lot of thought to > what you wrote, but since all of it tiptoed carefully > around what interests me without addressing any of it, > I *am* going to just blow it off.
Oh, getting me back? Nice work, we almost had a discussion on topics of MUTUAL interest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I got your point but that wasn't what interested me. > > > > > > Uh-huh. > > > > > > Was what interested you really the notion that I > > > wasn't aware till now that Barry claims he says stuff > > > just to piss me off? > > > > Whatever I wrote about was what interested me. This is not the best area > > to challenge because it deals with my own interests and I am unlikely to > > conclude that you might have more knowledge about this than I do. I > > suspect that some of the things her writes fall in this category but I'm > > sure he has lots of different motivations for what he writes. You seem > > more interested in speculating on what those other motives are than I am. > > > > > > > > Because you and I have been around that block several > > > times now. As you know, I don't believe it for a > > > nanosecond, at least the "just" part. He also wants > > > other readers to take it seriously; and he doesn't do > > > it only because he finds it "entertaining," he does it > > > because it *enrages* him that I see through him, and > > > he has to release some of that anger or he'll > > > incinerate himself. > > > > > > "Just to piss Judy off" is his *excuse* for constantly > > > demonizing me, including all the falsehoods. > > > > I think I understand what your POV is on this. I'm not sure about your > > conclusions about his internal state, but you are welcome to them. From > > outside it doesn't seem much deeper than that you don't like each other and > > have decided not to find anything to like. So you end up as cartoon people > > to each other, all bad, all good. You and I bounce off each other > > frequently but I don't only think of you one way. I try to focus on the > > parts of our interaction that work for me. > > > > > > > > Plus which, of course, he doesn't demonize and tell > > > falsehoods *just* about me. The post I was originally > > > commenting on was about John. In fact, you'll find > > > very, very few posts of his that don't demonize > > > somebody or some group. As I said before, that's his > > > M.O., that's what he *does* here. > > > > I admit to not being up on all your falsehood perspective on Barry's posts. > > That analysis of yours is not the most interesting angle for me. I know > > you think it should be everyone's big interest here but it just isn't the > > most interesting way to approach this board for me. I get the least out of > > those kinds of discussions. > > > > > > > > (You got a little taste of it not long ago regarding > > > your views on homeopathy, and you didn't like it much. > > > He forgot himself there for a minute, but he backed > > > off when you stood up to him; he doesn't want to lose > > > one of his few allies here. Unless you think he was > > > just having fun pissing *you* off to see how you'd > > > react.) > > > > I thought he was being cranky that day. But he doesn't have to cultivate > > me as an ally or worry about expressing anger or strong disagreement with > > me. I feel confident that we can work it out or at least move on. I take > > people post by post and try not to come in with too much baggage. That is > > also the strategy that works best for me interacting with you here. Every > > post is the first post as best as I can manage that perspective. > > > > > > > > In any case, Atrios does not, of course, believe for > > > a nanosecond that the right-wingers are just trying to > > > piss off liberals. Nor does he believe they make stupid > > > arguments because *they're* stupid. It's because they > > > know there are quite a few people stupid enough to take > > > them seriously. If they piss off liberals into the > > > bargain, that's a side benefit, but it isn't the goal. > > > > This is getting interesting. > > > > > > > > They *want* people to believe Obama is a "socialist > > > ideologue"; they *want* people to believe in "death > > > panels"; they *want* people to believe Obama wasn't > > > born in the U.S.; they *want* people to believe a big > > > snowstorm disproves global warming. They know better, > > > but they are confident many among their audience do > > > not. In other words, they're unscrupulous, cynical > > > liars. > > > > This is an area of mystery whenever I talk with my otherwise brilliant Dad > > about politics or anyone who lives on the Fox News perspective. I think it > > is case by case. Guys like Glen Beck are cynically rabble rousing for > > ratings IMO. I don't believe his schtick. I think Palin is a shitty > > thinker and does believe what she says but with zero analysis or depth. > > She seems to say things for reaction and feeds off of that rather than > > really analyzing anything she is saying. She parrots phrases and watches > > how people respond. Hannity seems to be a good match for your analysis. > > But I'm pretty sure that they are all just preaching to the choir. > > Although I will be sadly mistaken if they vote Obama out next election > > based on their propaganda campaign. They have mastered a unified message > > even though the message is mostly anathema for people on the right I have > > respect for like George Will. Ultimately I believe they are destroying > > their party with this extremism and simplistic sloganeering. I don't think > > much of the country has really gotten over electing a black president. I > > get that sense when I talk with some conservatives. > > > > I see the right as splintered now with the current crop of loudmouths at > > center stage. But I have too much disappointment with the democrats to see > > this too black and white. I have heard plenty of shitty thinking and > > sloganeering from them. Remember the whole Cheney conspiracy folks? They > > remind me of the Obama is a Muslim crowd. And I hated Cheney. But right > > now the right is using the rabble rousing mike and I agree with how you are > > characterizing them. I used to watch FOX news to understand the right's POV > > but since Obama has been in office I find it completely unwatchable. It > > makes me furious to hear them. > > > > > > > > And so are some of the TM critics on FFL, Barry most > > > prominent among them. As with the right-wingers, > > > some among the TM critics' audience find their lies > > > and demonizations convincing, especially when the > > > critics reinforce each other. > > > > You know what would really shut up all the critics? Impressive results > > from the TM programs so obvious they could not be denied. I don't believe > > for a second that critics are a problem for TM. People who have adapted > > the pro TM POV and love their practice don't care. People who are > > interested in TM are more likely to be influenced by a person into TM > > rather than someone who dropped it. And it is very natural to view critics > > of anything unfavorably in our society where the term "skeptic" is commonly > > used in derision. I think people gravitate to people like them for their > > information. It takes a lot of effort to push beyond natural affinity and > > interact with someone with a very different POV. Look how rare it is on > > this board where it should be relatively easy. I view the TM critics here > > as a very diverse bunch. Every relationship on the scale of belief and > > disbelief is represented. Even you are not at the World Government Ladies > > side of the line with your overt criticism of the organization and lack of > > TM teacher/religious reverence for Maharishi. (I may not have phrased that > > right.) (Shit I just discovered that using parentheses makes it look like I > > am using emoticons!) (That was not one.) )Or that one...) > > > > > > > > The one thing the right-wingers *don't* do is claim > > > they're saying this stuff just to piss off liberals. > > > They know *nobody* would be stupid enough to believe > > > that. > > > > If you want me to say that pissing you off is not Barry's sole motivation, > > fine. He writes a lot of stuff so I'm sure there are many motivations just > > as there are for me. But if you want me to see Barry as a really bad guy I > > have to decline. There are enough Barry and Judy haters here. I'm more > > interested in finding productive ways to interact with each of you. Just > > as we have here. >
