--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <jst...@...> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "Hugo" <fintlewoodlewix@> wrote: > >
> > > > > > And where is all that stored in your brain? Where did > > > the "data" of the experiences come from? > > > > I'd say it was invented in the same way that the dreaming > > mind conjurs up all sorts of fantastic stuff. > > See, that's where I just get boggled. I see stuff in > my dreams that I've *never* seen before, either "live" > or in photos or drawings, haven't read about, etc. > Plenty of what I see *is* familiar, but some of it > simply ain't. Hmmm, depends what you mean by "never" I get stuff that's wild but hasn't ever happened (I hope) but it's still feasible in a monster-ish or sci-fi way. The acid halucinations are also stuff from the world but in ways you wouldn't think of, just a kind of spontaneous modern art. Like I was sitting in a church once and looked up at the beams of light shining through the rafters and saw a troop of gorillas sitting as they do when resting in trees, just the mind making more out of shadows that was there but a striking image. What do can you see that hasn't existed before? It's all made up of concepts of various things, unless your mind is truly out there! > (On the other hand...I just learned yesterday something > I'd never heard, although apparently it's been public > knowledge for awhile--that Francis Crick came up with > the double helix while high on LSD. For some reason > I get a huge kick out of that.) I always thought that he had dreamed about two mating snakes entwined. Either one underlines the point that the conscious mind isn't what does any of the actual thinking, that's all done deep down, the aware part of us just forms an outline of the problem. Physicists have a saying called the BBBs - baths, buses and beds- which is where most good ideas seem to pop into awareness. Einstein kept plasters near his shaving mirror in case he cut himself having one his revelations whilst shaving. > I think you'll love this book. The author is very into > finding common patterns behind psychedelic experience. > He gets awfully heavily at times into using > psychedelics to save the world, but you can skip over > those parts. Sounds interesting, you'll have to let us know when it comes out. > <snip> > > Did I say it's our brains that control it? > > Yes, you did--see quote above, "because it's our brains > that control it"! I know, I was kidding. A case of not thinking before typing. > No more than > > windows vista is controlled by the chip in this computer, > > it allows it happen but doesn't know or care whether it > > does or not. > > So where does that leave us? Not being able to trust our own instinctive opinions about what happens in our minds I guess, which could be worrying but most people just ignore it - if they ever given it any thought that is. > > Gut feeling is a bad thing to go on as we are too good at > > kidding ourselves. > > Your analogy to Windows Vista sorta breaks down here, > doesn't it? (Assuming the OS is functioning properly, > that is.) I don't see the analogy breaking down but our OS can, the two interact more in the human body than in the computer. We have the feedback system of the fight/flight response for instance so we can be scared of things that aren't real and it'll be the same as if they were. If you don't take the analogy that far and think of some- thing like the TM explanation of mental activity, it doesn't have any actual parallel in the mind but we accept it as a good explanation regardless. It's a software option that thinks it knows how the machine that supports it functions but doesn't really and it doesn't affect *how* the machine runs because it's job is just - in the case of consciousness - to allow the creation of metaphors and patterns out of those metaphors, which is what all our thoughts are. The job of science here is to let us know which of the maps we create corresponds to what's actually happening. I think it's coming along well, that Horizon doc I posted from youtube yesterday had some fascinating things in it, I'd watch it if you get the chance.
