Does the rain in Spain fall mainly on the plain?
TurquoiseB wrote:
> Here is my question to the members of FFL:
>
> "Do you personally believe that someone who is
> enlightened intrinsically has any more positive
> effect on the world around them than someone
> who is not enlightened?"
>
> By asking this I am calling for *your personal
> opinion* on the matter. I am *not* calling for
> citations of "scripture" or "authority." I'm
> asking the individual posters here on FFL to
> reply to the question *as* individuals, to come
> up with their personal answer to the question, and
> if they feel like it, explain WHY they believe
> what they do and hold the opinion they do.
>
> Here...I'll start.
>
> My 40+ years along the spiritual path, having
> both interacted with people whom I suspect of
> being enlightened or close to it, and having
> experienced occasional periods of enlightenment
> myself (subjectively), have led me to NOT
> BELIEVE that realizing one's enlightenment
> benefits anyone other than the person who is
> experiencing it. As to WHY I believe this, I
> have seen no evidence in over forty years that
> makes me believe otherwise. I'm not "sure" or
> "certain" about this opinion, and I do not
> claim that what I believe is "true" or "Truth."
> It is only my opinion, here in this moment.
>
> There. That's what I'm talking about -- OPINION.
>
> No appeal to "scripture." No appeal to "author-
> ity," either in the form of some spiritual teacher
> or spiritual tradition that I cite *as* an
> "authority." Merely what I believe. My OPINION.
>
> So what's yours?
>
> Who here is up to presenting your own OPINION
> on this question *without* any appeal to "authority"
> or any other attempt to "bolster" your OPINION
> with someone else's opinion, or some spiritual
> teacher's or spiritual tradition's or spiritual
> scripture's opinion?
>
> This is an open forum, and anyone can choose to
> ignore the parameters of my request and fall back
> on an appeal to the "authority" of their choice if
> they want. I'll just have more respect for you if
> you don't.
>
> I ask this because one of the most fundamental and
> least-examined or challenged pieces of dogma under-
> lying not only the TM tradition but *most* spiritual
> traditions is that there IS something "special" about
> the enlightened that "pays off" or benefits the world
> at large *just as a result of them being enlightened*.
> Call it the Woo Woo Effect if you want. I do.
>
> Few (other than Curtis) have ever even *challenged*
> this assumption on this forum. The belief in the
> supposed "specialness" of the enlightened so permeates
> the prevailing dogma-mindset of most spiritual seekers
> that they never feel that there is any *need* to
> challenge it.
>
> As a result (IMO), spiritual traditions continue to
> perpetuate the dogma that being enlightened *is* some-
> how "special," and *SO* special that the pursuit of
> enlightenment is almost *by definition* the "highest
> path."
>
> I am questioning that dogma, and wondering whether
> there is anyone here who also questions it, or even
> more interestingly, does *not* question it, and who
> believes firmly that the enlightened *do* benefit
> the world at large *just by being enlightened* and
> who can support that belief without a single "appeal
> to authority." I look forward to someone trying, but
> after 40+ years of seeing how pervasive "the enlight-
> ened are special" meme has become, and the rote
> justification of the meme by "appeal to authority,"
> I honestly don't expect anyone to even try.
>
> Prove me wrong. If you believe it, try to put WHY
> you believe it into words -- your OWN words --
> without a single "appeal to authority."
>
> Thanks in advance for your participation. Or not.
> Whatever.
>
>
>
>
