Touche (there is supposed to be an accent on that "e"). It is not my intent to judge or criticize you...we all have the right to worship the belief system and/or spiritual leader that resonates with us. I am glad that you take what you like and leave the rest...in the end, so did I. That says that the ability to discern remains. I didn't meet a single person or IAM teacher that did not acknowledge her as the divine mother. She was put forth as the divine mother in the group lectures and meditations. She is acknowledged as the divine mother all over the internet by devotees and amritapuri alike. It doesn't matter to me...I was just calling a spade a spade. Perhaps the semantic details have blurred with her increase in celebrity status. It seemed to me that people were in a trance - but perhaps this was bliss brought on in part by extended meditation and surround sound - I was just curious about it. I mentioned in passing to a friend of mine a couple of months ago that I had seen Amma. I was surprised that she knew of her - turns out that she works with someone who follows Amma around during her tour here, and she mentioned (with no provocation from me) that this woman comes back very spaced out and it takes her several days to be able to produce anything at work, which worries her as, in addition, all of this woman's conversation revolves around Amma. Re: the life force comment - after I wrote it and a few other posts, I realized that I am no one to talk...I gave way too much of my physical, mental, and emotional energetic self away to my work for years before I finally hit the wall. I feel like I am in recovery and I am not "bouncing back a day later". My stress level is still far too high too often. I was able to get some discourse about Amma on this site and the other (from you, for example). After our visit, it was recommended to me that "I read her books" and "just follow the instructions"....no questions asked.....for chanting the mantra and doing the IAM meditation, both of which seemed quite prescriptive to me and therefore spurred my innate rebellion and desire to ask why "should" I pray to this woman as god, and why "should" I support my teenager to do so, no questions asked. I cannot dispute your observations re: Westerners and Indians and cultish behavior. I agree. Westerners have no cultural or time-tested context for Hinduism. I was definitely looking for an answer and did no prior research on anything - so naive that I thought, prior to our visit, that the presence of these saints in our midst was some sort of "spiritual truth" I'd been missing out on all these years :) that was independent of religion. I have asked...."Why do all the enlightened gurus come out of India?" One person told me it was simple population statistics. Hmmmmm.....ya think?
--- On Tue, 7/26/11, Ravi Yogi <[email protected]> wrote: From: Ravi Yogi <[email protected]> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: [email protected] Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 1:09 AM Denise, I will keep presenting my case as long as you and I are around. :-) "You do appear to "take what you like and leave the rest""Isn't this what we do in any situation? I think most everyone take what they like and leave the rest in the world and around Amma. We go to a coffee shop and get what we like and leave the rest, I just can't agree with your generalization, sure a higher percentage of them might consider her as an avatar or divine mother but if you polled them there views will dramatically differ as well. Initially some of them (like I did) might be aping just trying to fit in and will change and fine tune their practices. "Many of the devotees I met had some far off, spaced out look"Isn't this again true for the outside world. I see spaced out drivers, spaced out colleagues, space out shoppers everywhere. Sure we might remark at their stupidity, laugh at them for a few minutes, but we move on. We don't let these people distract us from our goal or what we need to finish, we don't stop driving, stop working or shopping. "When people get confused and start giving their life force over to someone else"Again is this unique to just spiritual groups? I see how people are caught in a 24x7 rut trapped in the material world expecting happiness from a million dollar house, a million dollar wife, kids and other possessions. Some are caught in worshiping movie stars, sport icons, some in various political, religious ideologies. Is this not handing over life force to someone else? In fact spirituality ultimately IS about not handing over life force to others and people come there for that life purpose, now you can't make fun of someone for their ignorance, most start from square one. "But then, in the Hindu tradition, one does subjugate oneself to one's guru"When around Amma, keep an eye out for the differences between Indians and Westerners. IME all cult-ish behavior is exhibited by Western born, I'm sure the Judeo-Christian conditioning plays a strong part. Regardless of your usage of subjugation Indians are conditioned to separate the inner and outer worlds. Their goal is to subjugate the ego, the shadow, you don't see them handing over all their possessions to the spiritual Guru. Occasionally one does does but they have strong inclination of detachment, most have possessions, family and majority don't relinquish worldly lives. --- In [email protected], Denise Evans <dmevans365@...> wrote: > > You do appear to "take what you like and leave the rest"....she absolutely > asserts herself as the divine mother and is uniformly referred to as such by > everyone I attended the retreat with. Â Doesn't Amma mean mother? Â Many of > the devotees I met had some far off, spaced out look - what is up with that > look in the eye? Â I felt like....."where are you?" was the appropriate > question. > If you believe that with her grace, life is easier, than so it is. Â For me, > "grace" is a very comforting thing as well. Â If I keep it simple, it works. > I appreciate her big picture message of love and compassion - the concept of > spreading this message is a good thing and she reaches millions. Â However, > her energy appears to desire and elicit worship - the message to "pray to > Amma" was embedded in all aspects of the retreat. But then, in the Hindu > tradition, one does subjugate oneself to one's guru. Â I was just raised > without an emotional attachment to any religion - it isn't a natural thing > for me to worship a guru----or Jesus either for that matter. Â I have never > believed that he was God, yet I do believe he was also a very very special > person with a similar message of love and compassion (that was corrupted > through interpretation). Â > When people get confused and start giving their life force over to someone > else....dangerous things can happen. > > --- On Mon, 7/25/11, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: > > From: Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, July 25, 2011, 12:24 AM > > > I don't consider Amma as an avatar or divine mother, IMO most who do are just > engaging in an intellectual concept. Not that there's anything wrong with it, > since the very faith, trust transforms. However IME she is definitely a > Satguru and a very very rare and a special person, not considering her as an > avatar or divine mother is not at all a handicap by any means. The key is not > outside of you, it's just that with her grace it so much easier. >
