-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra <no_reply@...> wrote: > > Curtis to Judy: He gets your goat by talking trash. Gets a rise every time. > You have > different styles of antagonizing each other, you are both experienced pros. I > know you want to convince me you are a victim here, but that is not going to > happen. You have a part in this dynamic and you are choosing it, that was my > original point. > > Dear Curtis, > > Of course Judy will answer you on this; but I can't help myself. And before I > say anything, maybe two things are true that I currently believe are false: > namely 1. that Barry does get Judy's goat; and 2. Judy really is into the > game of antagonizing Barry. > > I don't think that Barry gets Judy's goat whatsoever. She remains rational, > quick-witted, logical, and coherent. These are not the signs of someone whose > goat has been got. > > And if I thought she was into the game of antagonizing Barry I would tell her > so, and I wouldn't dream of coming to her defence (not that she needs > defending: that's for sure; I do it on a note of personal honouras much for > myself as for her). > > I just don't get it, Curtis. WHAT PRAY TELL is at the bottom of your > tenacious and pugnacious defence of Barry?
ME: That is not what I am doing. I am implicating Judy in the responsibility for the way they interact. She is making a case that she is a pure victim of Barry's badness. I've seen to many demeaning posts from her to buy that. You cann't get to the beginning of who started this feud it goes back like 16 years. R: > I like the idea of protecting, supporting a friend. But are truth and > friendship incompatible? ME: I don't see this as supporting him in the choices he has made in how to interact with Judy. I have chosen a different way that suits me. > > I think not. > > So, then, I believe that by encouraging Barry to continue to argue and insult > as he does in his present mode, ME: No. This is ridiculous. In no way have I encouraged him by pointing out to Judy (which is where this all started) that she is choosing her part in the interaction. R: you are stifling his chances of growing out of this, of realizing he is doing himself a terrible injustice. What possible justification could there be to implyto Barryhe has given to Judy every bit as good as she has given to himwhen you know, objectively, this is a lie? But you insist on maintaining this fraudulent implication. At all costs, it seems. ME: First of all is "growth" is none of my business. Secondly I never put numbers on it till Judy did in her last post. But whatever the numbers are, she has a hand in keeping this going. That was my point. R: > > You must know something about Barry that I do not know. ME: Actually I believe I know something about Judy that you don't know. ME: Which is tantamount to (since you are a very credible and persuasive human being) to making him think you approve utterly of what he says (since at the very least he is, according to you, in his criticism of me, ME: Why put words in my mouth? I never said anything about it till my last post where I made it clear I think he misjudged you. Up till now that was fairly obvious by my interactions with you. But I am not in charge of how he sees people here. R: <coming from the same place I am in my response to his criticism; ME: Never said that. In fact I believe you have been in a defensive posture from the beginning since he unloaded those two barrels. (no That is a loaded metaphor!) R: and ditto for Judy) even as I know deep inside of you you wish Barry could get on another track altogether. ME: You and Judy are separate cases. Except that I consider you both capable of defending yourselves without my assistance. R: > I suppose your cannot reveal your strategy here, Curtis, but it seems > inaccessible to ordinary human understanding. ME: My strategy is simple. I get along with Barry just fine and don't care who else does or doesn't. You can piss away a lot of time here worrying about how other people choose to interact. I try to stay on topics I enjoy writing about. This is not one of them but I am doing it out of respect for our friendship here. (And BTW writing buddies was a term of endearment, not a throwaway name.) R: > Why can't truth, beauty, goodness, sincerity, courage all be one single thing? > > I think they are. You don't. ME: That was a manufactured, ridiculous distinction Robin. R: > Nevertheless, I deny that I feel any differently in writing this than I did > in writing that letter to you today. > > I respect and honour you as the person you are, and even your POV. > > But the Barry thing will always strike a false note to me. Well, maybe not a > false note, but a song that seems consciously off-key. And therefore doesn't > sound as nice as some of your other music. ME: So do you think that if Barry sends a shitty post to someone here, I should criticize him for it? Should I make a case that you are really a swell guy outside of my own time I spend interacting with you? Would my words to what my actions do not? I interact with both you and Judy in the way I choose. I believe it gives you both a chance to show up really well here for those who are interested in seeing you in a positive light. I am not concerned with how others see you. I form my own opinions here about everyone based on how they interact with me. This place can be an excellent place to stimulate writing and thinking. It can also descend into the worst time wasting clique-gossip pit if you let others here dictate your agenda. My time here is too valuable to me to let that happen. > > Robin > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@> > wrote: > > > > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > OK, I do have to intervene at this point to deal with > > > > > some comments made about me. > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > <terasnip> > > > > > > Still, what you insist is the case with Judy, that does seem > > > > > > interesting to me. Even as your friend Barry insults her in the > > > > > > bitterest and most scathing (and, I believe prejudiced and > > > > > > unwarranted) ways. Me, if I have a friendship with someone and > > > > > > I notice they are being unfair and hatefuland usually > > > > > > ridiculousin their behaviour towards someone else (who I hold > > > > > > in very different terms), then I feel forced to say something > > > > > > to my friend [Barry]. > > > > > > > > > > > > ME:Hang around a bit and you will see why I feel that it is > > > > > > not so lopsided. This is an actual feud and neither side is > > > > > > blameless. > > > > > > > > > > Curtis has said many times that he doesn't read my > > > > > exchanges with Barry. That's OK, but on that basis > > > > > he is not in a position to remark on the balance of > > > > > blame. > > > > > > > > ME: Judy I never claimed never to have read them. > > > > You guys are kind of prolific and a bit repetitive. > > > > I have read plenty to evaluate them. > > > > > > Actually your comments on them, including in this > > > post, demonstrate that you haven't read nearly > > > enough. > > > > > > ME: You actually wrote that with a straight face? I have read more than > > enough, we just disagree on the perspective. > > > > > > > > > > > I avoid them because they are kind of mean on both > > > > sides. > > > > > > And here's an example: They're always mean on Barry's > > > side. But not on mine. > > > > > > Moreover, many of his mean posts about me and others > > > *are addressed to you*. If I say something negative > > > to you about Barry, you usually defend him. If he > > > says something negative to you about me, you almost > > > always just ignore it. > > > > ME: Your score card might be right. I try to pick my battles here like > > everyone else. It wouldn't surprise me if I had bias. You guys like to > > take shots at each other over my bow. I ignore far more than I respond to. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't claim to be "blameless," but I utterly reject > > > > > the notion that blame in the Barry-Judy situation is > > > > > anything but *hugely* lopsided. > > > > > > > > ME: And predictibly he feels the opposite I'll bet. That > > > > is the nature of feuds. > > > > > > He will *say* it's the opposite. I'm quite sure he > > > knows better. And so would you if you'd read enough > > > of our posts. > > > > > > > > Just for one thing, if one were to read my posts that > > > > > comment on Barry's, one would find that a significant > > > > > number of them--I'd guess at least 50 percent--are not > > > > > simply insults; quite a few are not insulting at all. > > > > > Rather, they involve reasoned, noninflammatory analysis > > > > > of points that Barry has made. > > > > > > > > ME: And often in demeaning language that is pretty much > > > > guarenteed to continue the ill will. > > > > > > And there's another example demonstrating that you > > > haven't read enough to say. Heck, you didn't even > > > read what *I* just said. "Reasoned, noninflammatory > > > analysis" is the opposite of "demeaning." > > > > ME: So you pick 50% as insulting. OK, I am not going to quibble about the > > numbers. Whatever the numbers it appears to be enough to keep it rolling in > > the same direction. Would you like me to say that many of your posts > > "involve reasoned, noninflammatory analysis > > of points that Barry has made"? OK that sounds right. But whatever the > > number of ill will posts it seems to be working. And as prolific as you > > are here, and as Barry focused, that 50% number is mindnumbingly high. > > > > > > > > And then there's this: > > > > > > > > That is never the case with Barry's posts that have > > > > > to do with me. > > > > > > Barry's posts having to do with me are *always* > > > demeaning. > > > > ME: No need to argue with this, it sounds right. I'll take your word that > > this is how you feel about all of them. > > > > > > > > > > There are other lopsided elements as well. I don't > > > > > *make up* stuff about Barry, for instance. > > > > > > And this. > > > > ME: He gets your goat by talking trash. Gets a rise every time. You have > > different styles of antagonizing each other, you are both experienced pros. > > I know you want to convince me you are a victim here, but that is not > > going to happen. You have a part in this dynamic and you are choosing it, > > that was my original point. > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > But it would be very interesting to see what bed Curtis > > > > > would make with Barry were he to land on Barry's shit > > > > > list and be subject to the same treatment Barry gives to > > > > > the others on that list. Curtis might not be quite so > > > > > sanguine about the availability of "other choices." > > > > > > > > ME: There are examples. Jim and I > > > > > > This isn't an example that relates to what I just wrote. > > > > ME: Sure it is. I was on Jim's shit list at one time and now am not. We > > both chose this. And maybe this is not an easy option for you for lots of > > good reasons. But from where I sit you seem to enjoy things as they are, > > you certainly put a lot of effort into it. > > > > > > <snip> > > > > And I am not even advocating that you do change your pattern > > > > with Barry.. You both seem to enjoy it > > > > > > I don't. There's nothing enjoyable about interacting > > > with Barry when one is on his "enemies" list. > > > > ME: Seriously? So it is all pain and you are a pure victim of abuse on the > > Internet? You don't enjoy correcting Barry or showing in a thousand ways > > how stupid you think he is? You don't revel in pointing out any flaw you > > can again and again and again and again and again? That is would be sad if > > it were true. > > > > > > > > > so I get it, that this is none of my business. I was just > > > > giving my opinion to Robin that the Tango rule is in full > > > > force here. > > > > > > And I'm pointing out why your opinion is way off-base. > > > > > > ME: Got, pure victim. Defenseless. Nothing you could do to change the > > dynamic you just have to keep cranking out the same rebuttals year after > > year after year after year after year. I think this problem is above my > > pay grade. > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > I don't understand why you feel you need anyone to intervene > > > > > > I don't "need" anyone to intervene. I simply point out > > > that you don't intervene, on my behalf or anybody else's. > > > That's your choice. It isn't a choice I respect. > > > > Me: Point taken. But since I have known you, gaining your respect was not > > one of my realistic options. And don't think I haven't noted your own lack > > of intervening when the guns are pointed my way unfairly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
