Hello Xeno. I am not sure if I can clarify and further explain my feelings, my goals in life as they pertain to spiritual matters or that enlightenment thing people talk about but I can say a few things here.
--- In [email protected], "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" <anartaxius@...> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <authfriend@> wrote: > > > > --- In [email protected], "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" > > <anartaxius@> wrote: > > > In this post Ann brings up a really important point about the > > > enlightenment game. It does not matter if the person you are > > > trying to imbibe spiritual experience from is enlightened or > > > not - that would be a good thing if they were enlightened - > > > but that they can get you to the next step that works out for > > > you in that direction. > > > > Seems to me Ann is saying she wasn't even looking for > > enlightenment, so I'm not at all sure how she can be > > said to have brought up the point Xeno makes. > > > > > They might not be able to take you all the way, but at that > > > point you are there and maybe they get you onto the next step > > > whereas if you were somewhere else, maybe that would not > > > happen. When the limit of what they can do is reached, and > > > you are not an idiot, you move on somewhere else. How many TM > > > initiators would you feel could take you all the way? Their > > > job - initiation, which means basically 'to start' - is to > > > get you on a path. It is clear that perhaps with the exception > > > of MMY no one continues to rely on their initiator to complete > > > the job because their job specification specifically limits > > > them to a few special tasks. > > > > This may well all be valid, but again, it's not clear to > > me how any of it relates to what Ann is talking about. > > > > > Ann's lack of condemnation of Robin in the present day is a > > > recognition of her ability to know when an appropriate break > > > is indicated, when to move on is necessary. First, let's start here because it is, for me, a bit different than how you see it Xeno. For me, my break from Robin and what he was doing at the time I was finally kicked out for good is independent of how I feel about him currently or how I felt about him even early on after I decided not to try and come back again the second time after having been "condemned" as an evil being. I did not try and return a second time because I recognized that things were off the rails at this point. I could not make heads or tails of what Robin or any of the others in the group were doing nor could I conceive of what good could come from the current state of affairs there. It is quite complicated but if I could just simplify and say that I no longer felt a coherent, intelligent or life-supporting environment that I could make sense of or that was good for me. The environment was contaminated and I needed to get out and breath fresh air. There was really no big choice or feeling that I had outgrown Robin but rather that the ship was sinking if not already sunk. Naturally at that point you jump into a life boat and if there isn't one you get wet and take a swim. I chalk up my lack of anger, resentment, bitterness as a kind of grace. I don't give myself any credit for having a lack of these negative feelings toward Robin or my time in his company. It is just how I feel. I didn't work on staying positive about it, I didn't have to counteract negativity consciously, it just never surfaced. Initially I felt sad, confused and astounded. I questioned how I could have been so wrong about somebody, about what I thought had been the right thing to have been involved in. I questioned my ability to judge character but that also passed as I came, over time, to realize none of it was wasted time and that in fact I gained and learned a tremendous amount about myself and others. The circumstances had evolved and changed over the three and a half years I was involved so it would be impossible to lump it all into a single description. In other words, life around Robin wasn't always how it manifested at the end. It was, for a long time, the only place on the planet to be as far as I was concerned. In addition, I met some of the most extraordinary people who are still some of my deepest friends today even though I don't see them. I am out of time but will return later to some earlier statements and ideas you and Judy made in this post. Thanks for being interested. > > > > Very interesting interpretation of what Ann wrote: > > > > > --- In [email protected], awoelflebater <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <authfriend@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > <snip> > > > > > > 2. Robin was never enlightened. > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it amazing that Barry knows for sure? Isn't it > > > > > amazing that Barry would even have an *opinion*, when he > > > > > didn't know Robin during the period when he says he was > > > > > enlightened? And when he doesn't even read Robin's posts? > > > > > > > > Yes indeedy, it certainly is amazing. If anyone could say > > > > anything about this small matter it could potentially be me > > > > since I was hanging around every minute of every day for > > > > about 1260 days back in the 80's. But guess what? I am no > > > > more qualified to say that someone is enlightened than I am > > > > to say if they are in love, hungry, scared or schizophrenic. > > > > Did it matter to me if Robin was enlightened? No, actually. > > > > I did not hang around because I thought Robin could get me > > > > to enlightenment or could bestow on me great spiritual gifts. > > > > I hung around because I felt it to be life-supporting, > > > > positive, extremely interesting, exciting and immensely > > > > fascinating. In addition I really liked Robin as a person, > > > > as a rebel, as a really smart, lively human being. I felt > > > > really alive around him and others who were also part of > > > > the "group". We were rockin' and rollin' back then. It was > > > > ecstatic and it was agonizing in turns. > > > > > > > > If it turned out Robin wasn't enlightened 26 years ago would > > > > I ask for my money back? Naw, I got more than the price of > > > > the ticket/admission in return. If what he had going on back > > > > then was called "Unity Consciousness" then so be it, you could > > > > call it anything you like, it doesn't mean much to me but if > > > > someone wants to put a label on it then sure, label it UC. And > > > > after all, Robin should know. I think you just might as well > > > > believe him as there isn't a soul on this planet who could > > > > prove otherwise. > > > > I wonder how Ann feels about Xeno's interpretation of the > > above. > > Well, that would settle the matter so I welcome it. In any case, I was > riffing off of what she said. Projecting. She seems like a practical gal, and > would make practical decisions about her own life, enlightenment or not. >
