--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" <fintlewoodlewix@...> wrote:
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> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robin Carlsen" <maskedzebra@> wrote:
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Salyavin1: Jesus, you are one pompous, sanctimonios, self-righteous windbag
aren't you. No need for professional qualifications to work that out!
Robin2: This could not be true, salyavin. I really believe you are wrong about
me. I am none of the things you accuse me of being based on this post. There
must be some misunderstanding here; I am willing to look at myself very
carefully because no one has ever levelled these charges against me before. I
am an intense, friendly intelligent, nice guy. How could I be pompous,
sanctimonious, self-righteous--and a windbag! That's certainly is not me,
Salyavin. What could be the problem here? I am telling you straight-out: I am
none of these things. You must believe me--again: I AM NOT THIS.
Salyavin2:That's how you come across in this here letter old chap, maybe you
want to take a look at that. Or at least provide sick bags if you intend
publishing private e-mails with such cloying over-sentimentality again.
Robin3: Look, Salyavin, I thought by acknowledging what I had done (and sort of
defending myself at the same time) you would lay off. Now you are coming at me
again. Have you never made a fool of yourself--EVER--in your life? I did
something here (and I grant that you have exposed me for my "cloying
over-sentimentality"--you called me other names before, so at least I should
thank you for being a little easier on me now--and I do) that drew your
criticism. I have done my very best to make you understand me. I would
appreciate it if you would not just keep persecuting me. If you stop this,
Salyavin, know that I will always keep in mind what you have said to me before
I go and do something like that again. I hope you at least understand me better
this time.
Salyavin2: But I'll change self-righteous to self-important though if that
helps the ol' self image a bit. Seems a bit fairer now.
Robin3: You have no idea how much more reasonable this word is--I know it took
some pity on your part for you to change the word--but it means everything to
me, Salyavin. I won't forget this. For me, this is sort of a moment when we are
moving closer to one another. At least here in Canada this is how one would
interpret your gesture here. Thank you.
Robin2: *Now* do you believe me? You should, Salyavin, because you are really
missing out on something if you think of me in these terms. My perception of
myself does not accord with your perception--but I am not going to try to
change your mind--You just have to accept my word for it. Inside the context I
was writing, what I said here made perfect sense. But if I am pompous,
sanctimonious, and self-righteous--and a windbag IT'S NEWS TO ME. How could
this be true if I have gone 68 years and no one has ever said I was that? I
didn't get no followers because I was a windbag--especially the version you
describe here.
Salyavin2: I don't believe you.
Robin3: Disappointing, this, Salyavin. I feel we have taken (actually YOU have
taken) a step backward, just when I felt there was some common understanding
here. I hope this is not a sign of things to come (in the rest of your post).
But I will keep reading. Perhaps my writing to you a second time (that is a big
deal, I think: that I would consider it so important--what we are discussing
here--that I would write to you once yet again) will soften you and you will
take this back. I mean what you say here. "I don't believe you". Well, I
believe you believe this when you say it. So I have got that far. But I can go
no further, Salyavin. Am I making sense here? I know I am in my heart. The one
thing I must avoid is sentimentality. Probably I should just not say anymore
here and move on. This is what I am going to do.
Robin2: Please, Salyavin, let us give this another go. There must be some
mistake here. Have you considered the possibility you are misperceiving me?
Salyavin2: I'd poke my own eyes out before writing "Remember, Salyavin loves
you..." to someone I never even met.
Robin3: That seems extreme to me. But I think I can get something from it--How
so? Because this is the line I will remember whenever I get a little too
sentimental. Now I really think I understand, Salyavin: this was the most
powerful moment in our exchange. I appreciate this, Salyavin. ("I'd poke my
eyes out"--Whew--that is what Oedipus did, as you know.)
Salyavin2: No, your letter here is too flowery, I've met people with your MO
before - all excess flattery and artificial charm - maybe some get off on that
but not me, it rings all the alarm bells that someone isn't being straight. I
doubt you're even being straight here but
I'll play along.
Robin3: This was OK until I got to the end: Now you are questioning my
sincerity! That to me, Salyavin, is more serious than anything you have said so
far. And it entirely disrupts the flow of our movement towards understanding
each other. I will ask you to take this back; I have protested about what you
have said about me so far; but I have not exactly been offended. You have
crossed the line here--BUT I WILL LET YOU DO THIS IN ORDER TO KEEP THE PEACE.
Does that make you feel any different? I hope it does, salyavin; I hope it
does. Just for the record I did not doubt you were "being straight"--why accuse
me of something I never accused you of?
Robin2:No, I will not accept this judgment of me--It is unfair. And, I believe,
emphatically not true. There. I feel much better having defended myself against
these absurd insults of yours. I bet you felt good knocking me down like
that--Admit it, Salyavin: You liked the feeling you got from dissing me like
this.
Well, HAVE YOU EVER FELT WOULD IT WOULD BE LIKE IF YOU WERE CALLED NAMES LIKE
THIS? Think about that for a minute, Salyavin--because I am sure you would not
like it one bit.
Salyavin2: No-one has ever has called me that particular set of names, probably
because I'm not that sort of person.
Robin3: Well, I accept that. Now that I think about it, it seems true to me.
But substitute some other names that represent something negative (offhand I
can't think of what you might be called that would be equivalent to what you
produced inside of me by calling me the names you did--But still you can at
least IMAGINE what it might be like--Perhaps, though, that is a message to me:
Hey, Robin: Salyavin doesn't act like this--why not you, too?). It is very
clear to me what you mean here, Salyavin. I am going to act from here on in
such as to make myself not susceptible to this kind of criticism. So, I think
this good. Very good, in fact.
Robin2: I am sorry if I have retaliated here in some way; I have only tried to
protect my honour. I will not allow someone to demean me like this. And I
believe I have done the right thing to stand up for myself and fight back,
Salyavin. I give myself credit for THAT at least. And you must too.
I think when people call someone names they should not take it. I have shown
that I will not take it. And I feel much better.
Sorry, if I sounded a little bitter. I didn't mean to be. But please don't call
me these names again, Salyavin. It was not a nice experience at all. But I have
told you how your post affected me, and somehow I have got back my confidence.
So, I guess it was a good experience to go through. It was God challenging me,
seeing if I could stand up to you.
And I have. So THERE!
No, I am willing to go half-way here with you, Salyavin--but I must at least
sense your knowing that you have hurt me. But no matter: I have proved to
myself I can take it--and give as good as I got.
Robin
Your response [I am not speaking to you here, Salyavin, as you know]
I will miss you. [This is not you--OR me saying this]
Salyavin1:And just what do you get from publishing something someone wanted
kept off-list? And why are you so free of embarrassment that you wouldn't want
*this* kept off-list?
Robin2: It just felt good to bring some discomfort to her. I like making people
go through ordeals--as you may know. I thought: If I let this impulse of
cruelty and hatred pass me by it might not come again. So I acted. It was pure
malice. But there was no need to point this out, Salyavin. I knew it; everyone
knew it. Think before you write what is so obvious.
Salyavin2: Aint nothing wrong with stating the obvious. And it did flow on
nicely from my vomiting after reading your private letter so I'm happy to feel
no shame here.
Robin3: That word "vomit": Is it possible you could get rid of that ONE WORD,
Salyavin? I don't think you should take liberties with language like that: What
I did could not, surely, make a person sick to their stomach. But you meant
that, right? Or may I consider it just a figure of speech? I will do this so
you don't even have to deal with this, Salyavin: Robin understands Salyavin to
be exaggerating here: HE DID NOT ACTUALLY THROW UP when he read Robin's letter.
Robin2: At least we have cleared the air, Salyavin--at least this is how I feel
after coming back at you hard.
You with me on this? You get what I was doing, right, Salyavin?
Salyavin2: Obviously.
Robin3: For me, this doesn't quite have the right spirit. Too close to being
sarcastic. I would rather you had just said: "Yes, I do, Robin". May I sort of
pretend that those are the three words you wrote rather than the one that you
did?
Robin2: It is pretty simple: I don't like someone calling me names, and I won't
stand for it.
And besides this, if I feel like being mean to someone, I will.
Now let's be friends, Salyavin. How about it? Can we shake on that? Canada to
England.
Salyavin2: I'm the friendliest guy you have never met.
Robin3: That's pretty funny, Salyavin I caught the "never" there. If we do,
though, you are not going to hold what I did in posting that letter against me,
are you? I mean so as to prevent us from possibly having a friendship--an
international one at that. I would like to take away that "never". And I am
glad you are this friendly. I sense this to be true about you. And I am feeling
much better at this point in our conversation. It is worth it, Salyavin;
believe me. It is worth it. (If I am to judge how I feel in my heart right
now.)
Robin2: There is too much strife in the world. Why not make an example of
ourselves and seek to get along.
I hope I have not been too harsh here. But just think if you were in my
position and someone said these things about YOU.
You would not like it at all, Salyavin.
Salyavin2: I really wouldn't give much of a toss to be perfectly honest.
Robin3: You mean if I had called you names it would not have touched you as it
touched me? Perhaps that is a British thing. Have you ever thought about
*that*? Anyway, just reading this statement of yours, I think it is a good
lesson to me: just because you get all upset, Robin, at what someone has said
to you, that doesn't mean every other person in your situation would react the
very same way. Salyavin would not. I wonder now whether it would have been
possible (or even more desirable) just to have ignored your post. Is it
possible you can give me your opinion about this, Salyavin?
Robin2: You are in a different time zone than we are, right? So it must be
morning there in England.
Well, then--here goes:
Good morning to you, Salyavin.
The reason I was willing to post what should have remained on the "kept-off
list" was because I didn't realize anyone would say what you said here. Do you
think if I knew you were going to call me names like this, I would have posted
this?
No way. I am not stupid, Salyavin.
Salyavin2: I prefer your first explanation, it fits better. Everyone has mean
days Robin but people will judge you on them, happens to us all.
Robin3: It may seem like a small thing to you, Salyavin, but your inserting the
word "Robin" in there--this makes all the difference to me. I feel that
"friendliest" thing--and now know it is true. I feel you are giving me
permission to get on with my life, and that we do not need to discuss this
matter further This means quite a lot to me, Salyavin. (You notice how often I
have used your name--How I wish I knew WHAT IT REALLY WAS. That would have some
effect too, I believe--I mean in sensing the real person Salyavin. But perhaps
I became tempted by my sentimentality there. Just kidding. I am fine. I had a
"mean day": THAT IS GOING TO BE THE WAY I LOOK UPON IT FROM NOW ON. It is over.
Just a moment of letting my meanness get the better of me. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN
AGAIN, SALYAVIN.
Robin2: That's going to be my closing line to you, Salyavin. I think it's a
pretty good one.
Robin
Robin3: It really means something to me that we have been able to discuss this
matter civilly--I mean once I wrote back to you. I hope this is the beginning
of something positive, Salyavin. I really believe it might even change the
culture around here.
I have enjoyed our exchanges. I feel that had I been able to experience what I
experience right now, I would not have posted those letters.
IT WORKED, SALYAVIN!
Your sincerely,
Robin
