I very much go by the energy of the person. Do I like their energy, how they feel energetically to me. Meaning are we resonant? And then, it's not enough for me if they're enlightened or have had mystical experiences. What's more important for me is: are they an enlightened teacher? Meaning, can they help others attain a more developed state. And more recently I'm drawn to teachers who can help deal with and heal and or at least be at peace with the shadow aspects of myself. Fortunately a lot of teachers seem to be focusing on that these days. Thankfully the days of just a lot of rhetoric seem to be gone.
________________________________ From: "doctordumb...@rocketmail.com" <doctordumb...@rocketmail.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 8:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: THIS is how spirituality should be done IMO Maharishi spoke directly to Mother Divine. Will that work for you? Some teachers and enlightened individuals make a big deal of it, others not so much. The determination of a person's enlightenment can easily be determined by someone genuinely living that state of consciousness - no need for "signs" and what not. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: > > *"But I do question his (Adyashanti's) purported Enlightenment."* > > Let me clarify further in saying that Adyashanti hasn't had a mystical > experience based upon what I saw and read. This is certainly the problem > with most on batgap - their so-called enlightenment seems to be nothing but > projected states of mind based upon the concepts of nothingness if Buddhist > Zen types or Maharishi's descriptions if TM types. The neo-advaitins are > the most horrible ones. > > What I need is some example like Amma who went through actual, demonstrable > mystical experiences though she ultimately deceived herself by trying to > frame it in a medieval goddess possession context of her village and posing > as an infallible divine mother, avatar type figure and creating a > destructive cult. > > Even based upon what you - Barry - have commented on Rama/Lenz - he may > have had mystical experiences yet deceived again. I have seen nothing on > Maharishi. Osho seems to have had mystical experiences though once again > creating a destructive cult. > > Anyway - this is what I look for - an actual altered state of consciousness > because of a mystical experience and then followed by an intellectual > discovery, reconciliation. Not these projected states of mind, calmness > because of life-numbing practices, repression and/or perversion like > Gandhi, Teresa types, the myriad Hindu, Zen Gurus, teachers, avatars - all > kinds of frauds and consters. > > The only authentic ones I have found so far are Ramana Maharishi, > Krishnamurti - they seem to have been devoid of all medieval mumbo-jumbo, > an actual intellectual reconciliation of mystical energies into leading > meaningful, authentic lives. > > People like Maharishi, Ammachi aka Amma - frauds & consters- even if > ultimately people benefited from them - I certainly am an example of > someone benefiting from cult and fraud Gurus. > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Ravi Chivukula > wrote: > > > No worries Barry - I thought you had forgotten about the video and your > > comments on the video. I remembered it and searched for it so you would > > know and I added my comments as well. Certainly - a good thing to have a > > clean approach regardless of you like him or not - at least he doesn't > > claim to be an infallible Guru, an avatar and/or Divine Mother/Father. But > > I do question his purported Enlightenment. > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > >> ** > >> > >> > >> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote: > >> > > >> > Barry on Adyashanti - > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/288636 > >> > - very spot on, serious, joyless. > >> > > >> > He is just a good speaker - nothing less, nothing more. > >> > >> For the record, Ravi, all I was speaking about in my > >> praise of this website was its/his "way of doing busi- > >> ness." That struck me at the time (and still does) as > >> a very CLEAN approach to teaching spiritual subjects > >> in a very DIRTY smorgasbord of lazy, unscrupulous, > >> and money-grubbing dilettantes. The book itself is > >> free, or sold for the cost of printing. The teachers > >> "invited" to teach the same approach are clearly named, > >> and just as clearly it is stated that anyone else who > >> might be hosting discussion groups is On Their Own, > >> and that they do not necessarily reflect Adya himself > >> or his teachings. Having seen so much of the opposite, > >> I liked the CLEAN approach. > >> > >> That said, a quick glance through the first few chap- > >> ters of this freebie book reminded me of the humorless- > >> ness and seriousness that I first detected in the > >> video I commented on earlier. I would not be tempted > >> to "study with" Adya, although I'd be open to seeing > >> him sometime if he were ever in my area, largely > >> because of that overly Serious vibe I get from him > >> that I also get from so many Zennists or former > >> Zennists. Not my cuppa tea. > >> > >> Nor is his choice of language. I find it imprecise > >> and overly project-my-experience-onto-everyone-else's- > >> experience, especially his overuse of a word I don't > >> like at all, and don't believe in even the concept > >> of, Truth. Just because he experienced it don't make > >> it Truth, and just because he experienced it don't > >> mean that he can guide others to experiencing it also, > >> let alone that it would be Truth for them. > >> > >> I'd love to hear how he deals with students who attain > >> his level of supposed "Truth" but then find it either > >> lacking in satisfaction and move on to something > >> further, or just "move on" naturally, as the result > >> of continual spiritual growth. I would think that the > >> test of his rap would be how he'd handle that in one > >> or more of his students. > >> > >> That said, it *was* a pleasure to encounter someone > >> who has seemingly witnessed most of the things that > >> can possibly go WRONG with spiritual teaching, and who > >> has developed a teaching model that seeks to avoid > >> as many of these traps and pitfalls as possible. The > >> CLEAN nature of his presentation and the way he handles > >> the *business* of teaching is impressive, and I commend > >> him for that. The "Way" that he teaches, I have no > >> comments on, because I'm not in the market for one, > >> except my own. > >> > >> > On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:59 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > >> > > >> > > ** > >> > >> > > Haven't read it, don't know much about the guy, but > >> > > I like the way he does things. > >> > > > >> > > http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=productdetail&iprod_id=533 > >> > > > >> > > *The Way of Liberation* > >> > >> > > A Practical Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment > >> > > by Adyashanti > >> > > > >> > > Printed copy: $10.00 > >> > > Downloadable PDF: Free > >> > > > >> > > Even if you aren't interested in the free PDF, you might > >> > > want to click the here link > >> > > and read more about his > >> > > organization and how it operates. I can only hope that > >> > > it is as clean as it sounds, because that would be unique > >> > > in the smorgasbord of things that people call spiritual. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
