Doc, I was having a very similar thought in the Dome this morning: that people who stopped doing TM and TMSP long ago have no idea, even more importantly, no experience of what the long term effects are. And they can be very difficult to describe. AND I'm guessing that it has something to do with whole brain whole body functioning rather than partial brain partial body functioning. I'm deliberately using this whole brain whole body language rather than some other language that might be more abstract. I remember that one goal of YF is to increase mind body coordination.
________________________________ From: "doctordumb...@rocketmail.com" <doctordumb...@rocketmail.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2013 8:04 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question for TM Cheerleaders snip TM is not the static believerism you make it out to be. You have NO IDEA about the techniques' long term effects because you quit doing it, decades ago. snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, navashok wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > My point is that a lot of these discussions are, from > > > > my point of view, falling prey to one of the most > > > > chronic TM fallacies. People repeat stuff they were > > > > TOLD -- by the people selling them the technique -- > > > > as if it were not only true, but cosmically true, > > > > Gospel Truth. They consider these things Truth so > > > > strongly that they *assume* them, parrot them along > > > > without even *noticing* the assumption, and then base > > > > other, subsequent statements on them as if the Truth > > > > of the assumptions was a given. > > > > > > Now that's something I noticed, that the theories and the > > > mindset created continues way after a person actually > > > leaves TM. If you were let's say 10 years in TM, your > > > belief system will be influenced still decades after > > > you left it - not all of the beliefs, but enough for you > > > to still uncover it, if you are interested in it. > > > > And if you are interested in challenging their supposed > > truth or value. In my experience, it's these "core" or > > *never challenged* beliefs that persist the longest, and > > are toughest to either recognize or challenge. Stuff like > > *assuming* that "effortless is better," or that "the only > > way to transcend is via effortlessness." People have been > > repeating that meme for so long -- in most cases *without > > ever trying a technique not based on effortlessness to > > see if it's really true* -- that they no longer realize > > that it's a fundamental belief that underlies and shapes > > all other beliefs they have about meditation in general, > > and sometimes about life itself. > > A poignant example of this, related to me by at least > half a different spiritual teachers from traditions > other than TM, has to do with what long-term TMers > come to their public introductory talks. Often a tech- > nique of meditation is taught, and of course they sit > there and look as if they're trying it, just like > everyone else in the audience. > > But all of these teachers have related the same story > to me. Some of these TMers actually come up to them > later and ask to meet with them privately, because > they're interested in attending more talks, or study- > ing with them, often because they liked the overall > energy of the group or of the teacher, or liked the > things he or she talked about. > > What these teachers have learned to do, out of long > experience, is to ask the former TMers, "When we > practiced the meditation I was teaching, did you > actually *try* it, or did you sit there doing TM? > Be scrupulously honest now." > > In *most* cases, when dealing with former TMers, they > admit that they never *did* try the new technique of > meditation. Some admit that some part of them still > felt "guilty" about trying it, as if doing so were > somehow "wrong" or "sinful," and others admitted to > not having tried it because "they already knew how > to meditate." > > Most of these teachers at this point asked the person > applying to study with them to go away, and return > when they had regained the ability to achieve > "Beginner's Mind," and approach a new study with > humility, and not with arrogance. Few ever did. > > > > If you discover that Maharishi was playing games with > > > beliefs, inventing stories to make people go along with > > > it, and then see how long it takes to get rid of it, it > > > makes you think. > > > > And it's a real *challenge*, both to identify these core > > beliefs, to challenge them when you do, and then to drop > > them if you find them not true or not valuable for you. > > This is more effort than most people who've invested for > > many years in a spiritual tradition are willing to expend. > > They pay "lip service" to having walked away, but *when* > > they walk away, they do so still carrying years of indoc- > > trination and beliefs as baggage. > > > > > But OTOH, if you REALLY transcend, if you really go ahead > > > in your experience, it will also explode most of those > > > beliefs. > > > > For some. For others, they find a way *after* the trans- > > cendent experience to interpret it in hindsight as > > reaffirming the things they believed before. > > > > > That is why those who really get into a higher state of > > > consciousness, usually can't stay in the movement for > > > very long. The beliefs and indoctrination is for those > > > without experiences. > > > > Can't argue with that. How you gonna keep 'em down on > > the farm after they've seen Par-eee? Don't ever allow > > them to see Par-eee. :-) > > >
