You are right, I don't say this often enough but I love you dear Curtis. My mind is fantasizing on a woman - she seems to have all the qualities I would want my partner to. I can't screw this by getting too playful and blissy - you hear me?
On Mar 10, 2013, at 7:56 AM, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@...> > wrote: > > > > > > On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:21 PM, "authfriend" <authfriend@...> wrote: > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray27" <steve.sundur@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. > > > > > > Of course it does! > > > > > > > Indeed - the hard on Steve gets every time he sees Curtis is pretty > > repulsing - at least to me. No offense to you here, Curtis - just Steve. > > I don't really get this Ravi. You are capable of being friendly with people > here and giving them a high five if you agree. Why get so bent when Steve > does it? We were both in the same group and shared many of the same > experiences so it shouldn't surprise you that we often see eye to eye. > > Mostly he was high fiving me for contributing some sincere writing, sharing > my perspective and inviting others to do the same. Did you read Xeno's reply? > Some interesting stuff came out of it. I wish you would share more of your > experiences with spirituality this way. > > <I liked the concerns you brought up here - just disagree with your > conclusions and how you brush off all cults, religion. Glad Judy challenged > that.> > > I suspect we have many points of agreement in our views about spiritual > groups Ravi. It is a little harder because my experience is mostly localized > in a group you weren't in. But many groups share a lot of similarities, > especially in how the followers operate. > > > > > > > > > > > I don't > > > > understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as "my > > > > opinion this", or "my opinion that". I think that is pretty obvious. > > > > My "buy in" was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at > > > > a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are > > > > skewing the whole affair by any means. > > > > > > > > And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I > > > > know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" authfriend@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine > > > > > > and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your > > > > > > own POV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements > > > > about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free > > > > reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I > > > > saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on > > > > meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had > > > > been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support > > > > themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can > > > > incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding > > > > courses is not without some basis in my experience. > > > > > > > > > > And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I was > > > > involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who start > > > > TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most > > > > people who start TM, stop TM too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <authfriend@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think "addiction" is a tricky term to use. It's handy when > > > > > > > > you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest > > > > > > > > there's something dangerous about it, because the term is > > > > > > > > usually pejorative; but then there's the whole "positive > > > > > > > > addiction" theory to be considered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that "addiction" can be overused and misapplied. I > > > > > > > believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you > > > > > > > do not. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it can be considered a positive addiction for > > > > > > most of those who find it addicting at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the > > > > > > > synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I > > > > > > > experience it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear > > > > > > it's your experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a > > > > > > > drug-free high. > > > > > > > > > > > > By the TMO? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were > > > > > > > > similar to "addiction" to TM, your intention to load > > > > > > > > your argument becomes obvious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things > > > > > > > people can be addicted to including gambling. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also a negative addiction. > > > > > > > > > > > > And there > > > > > > > are many valid distinctions to draw between them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But my focus was just on the brain reward system aspect. > > > > > > > With meditation it is so high that it can lead to people > > > > > > > being satisfied just meditating. That was Guru Dev's life > > > > > > > before he hit the Shankaracharya lottery right? And he is > > > > > > > far from the only one. It was how I lived at sidhaland. > > > > > > > We switched the balance there from meditating for activity > > > > > > > to just acting as much as we had to to get back to program. > > > > > > > It was all Maharishi directed and it went on for 3 years > > > > > > > for me. So I am not overstating the case of how absorbed > > > > > > > you can get with these euphoric states of mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > In a Siddhaland-type context, sure. But you didn't specify > > > > > > that to begin with. It sounded as though you were speaking > > > > > > generally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think I have an agenda to turn people off of > > > > > > > practicing TM? I don't. Emily can figure out for herself > > > > > > > if TM is for her. But here I have a chance to express what > > > > > > > I really think about it outside the PR angle that some > > > > > > > person might get turned off to TM by me being honest about > > > > > > > my POV on meditation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine > > > > > > and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your > > > > > > own POV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a fascinating area for me and the jury is not in about > > > > > > > any of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have come to believe that certain experiences of heightened > > > > > > > states of bliss are not productive. > > > > > > > > > > > > For you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am trying to understand how it was so easy for me to > > > > > > > drop out of the sidhis and never want to do them again. > > > > > > > I got intense pleasure from the sidhis. But now that > > > > > > > kind of experience has zero appeal. How can this be if > > > > > > > it was the highest experience of my life? The reason is > > > > > > > that now I get my inner states of joy from achievements > > > > > > > and creative expression. I have switched my source of > > > > > > > similar brain states of peak experiences. I am no longer > > > > > > > attracted to states of content free pleasure from any > > > > > > > source. > > > > > > > > > > > > One might ask whether it's possible that your stint with > > > > > > the TM-Sidhis increased your capacity to get "inner states > > > > > > of joy from achievements and creative expression." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But your post balances out my view quite nicely for people who are > > > > evaluating if they should try TM here. I don't have a problem with what > > > > you brought out. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <authfriend@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emilymae.reyn" > > > > <emilymae.reyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good > > > > > > > > > > > > chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels > > > > > > > > > > > > of serotonin, dopamine, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience with TM meditation and its associated > > > > practices > > > > > > > > > > > is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward > > > > system > > > > > > > > > > > for achievement in our lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe this should say, "...it is a way to hijack my usual > > > > > > > > > > brain reward system for achievement in my life," since this > > > > > > > > > > is your personal experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe your brain and mine are similar in this regard. > > > > > > > > > If you transcend into what Maharishi called bliss > > > > > > > > > consciousness you are giving your brain such a high > > > > > > > > > reward it forgets everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During meditation, yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is just Maharishi's teaching. But you raise an > > > > > > > > > interesting point that perhaps there is a difference > > > > > > > > > between the kind of brain that would go into a sidhaland > > > > > > > > > or Purusha and someone who has integrated TM into their > > > > > > > > > life the way you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, "perhaps" there is, TM being for householders and > > > > > > > > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment divorced > > > > > > > > > > > from achievement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one > > > > > > > > > > of the "secret teachings" just for teachers? Because I > > > > > > > > > > sure don't remember having heard him say it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is a core part of his message I don't know how you > > > > > > > > > missed it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I don't think so, Curtis. Certainly I didn't hear > > > > > > > > it during *my* three days' checking, and I never heard it > > > > > > > > subsequently, either. I think you must be misinterpreting > > > > > > > > something, or expressing it badly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We go to bliss consciousness and establish ourselves in > > > > > > > > > that to give us complete fulfillment which bypasses the > > > > > > > > > whole action for achievement for fulfillment cycle. It is > > > > > > > > > actually taught in 3 days checking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You didn't include "action" in what you said above. With > > > > > > > > "action," you might invoke "Do less and accomplish more/ > > > > > > > > Do nothing and accomplish everything" to make your point. > > > > > > > > But what you said to start with sounds as if you meant > > > > > > > > there was no *accomplishment* involved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then there's the old "200 percent of life," and the > > > > > > > > idea that you don't meditate for the sake of meditation > > > > > > > > but for fulfillment *in activity*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The impression you've been conveying is that you just > > > > > > > > sit around in bliss rather than accomplishing anything. > > > > > > > > But that would not be an accurate picture of Maharishi's > > > > > > > > teaching (at least not his teaching to the Great TM > > > > > > > > Unwashed). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where I differ with his teaching is that he thinks this > > > > > > > > > automatically makes people better at and more dynamic > > > > > > > > > in activity and I don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, reasonable people could disagree on this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger > > > > > > > > > > > highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. > > > > > > > > > > > Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they > > > > > > > > > > > miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like > > > > > > > > > > > any other addict. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many meditators show this? What percentage would you > > > > > > > > > > say? And how have you determined this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I lived with thousands of meditators while in the movement. > > > > > > > > > I have seen many meditators reactions to missing meditation. > > > > > > > > > Discussed many with my own TM students. I hav > > > >
