God, Ravi, you crack me up. I needed a good laugh. Yes, remember to "observe basic courtesies" and don't show her FFL. :)
>________________________________ > From: Ravi Chivukula <[email protected]> >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 3:40 PM >Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM kid expelled for pot but the foreign kids >get no punishment. > > > >http://youtu.be/eCmrrO3do5k > > >On Mar 10, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Ravi Chivukula <[email protected]> wrote: > > >You are right, I don't say this often enough but I love you dear Curtis. My >mind is fantasizing on a woman - she seems to have all the qualities I would >want my partner to. I can't screw this by getting too playful and blissy - you >hear me? >> >> >> >>On Mar 10, 2013, at 7:56 AM, "curtisdeltablues" <[email protected]> >>wrote: >> >> >> >>>--- In [email protected], Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@...> >>>wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 9, 2013, at 8:21 PM, "authfriend" <authfriend@...> wrote: >>>> >>>> > --- In [email protected], "seventhray27" <steve.sundur@> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > Curtis, what you say rings true with my experience. >>>> > >>>> > Of course it does! >>>> > >>>> >>>> Indeed - the hard on Steve gets every time he sees Curtis is pretty >>>> repulsing - at least to me. No offense to you here, Curtis - just Steve. >>> >>>I don't really get this Ravi. You are capable of being friendly with people >>>here and giving them a high five if you agree. Why get so bent when Steve >>>does it? We were both in the same group and shared many of the same >>>experiences so it shouldn't surprise you that we often see eye to eye. >>> >>>Mostly he was high fiving me for contributing some sincere writing, sharing >>>my perspective and inviting others to do the same. Did you read Xeno's >>>reply? Some interesting stuff came out of it. I wish you would share more >>>of your experiences with spirituality this way. >>> >>><I liked the concerns you brought up here - just disagree with your >>>conclusions and how you brush off all cults, religion. Glad Judy challenged >>>that.> >>> >>>I suspect we have many points of agreement in our views about spiritual >>>groups Ravi. It is a little harder because my experience is mostly >>>localized in a group you weren't in. But many groups share a lot of >>>similarities, especially in how the followers operate. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > I don't >>>> > > understand the need to excessively qualify everything you say as "my >>>> > > opinion this", or "my opinion that". I think that is pretty obvious. >>>> > > My "buy in" was also tremendous. My take away from the experience is at >>>> > > a different point on the scale than yours, but I don't think you are >>>> > > skewing the whole affair by any means. >>>> > > >>>> > > And furthermore this place is greatly enhanced by your participation. I >>>> > > know you hear this a alot and the reason is, because it's just true. >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" >>>> > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" authfriend@ wrote: >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > > Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine >>>> > > > > and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your >>>> > > > > own POV. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > The reward centers of our brains do not make the value judgements >>>> > > about what triggers the endorphins. My point concerns the content free >>>> > > reward system itself. And since I spent a lot of time being fulltime I >>>> > > saw a lot of people whose lives were a wreck from their fixation on >>>> > > meditation. Later after I got out I spent time with families who had >>>> > > been torn apart by their kids over-involvement and inability to support >>>> > > themselves. So the comparisons with other activities that can >>>> > > incapacitate people due to an uncontrollable urge like for rounding >>>> > > courses is not without some basis in my experience. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > And these levels of exposure was what Maharishi was pushing when I >>>> > > > was >>>> > > involved. It was what he wanted from his teachers. Most people who >>>> > > start >>>> > > TM never get to that level of involvement. But on the other hand most >>>> > > people who start TM, stop TM too. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" >>>> > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > --- In [email protected], "authfriend" <authfriend@> >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > I think "addiction" is a tricky term to use. It's handy when >>>> > > > > > > you want to discourage people from trying TM or suggest >>>> > > > > > > there's something dangerous about it, because the term is >>>> > > > > > > usually pejorative; but then there's the whole "positive >>>> > > > > > > addiction" theory to be considered. >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > I agree that "addiction" can be overused and misapplied. I >>>> > > > > > believe in the case of TM it applies, but I get it that you >>>> > > > > > do not. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > I think it can be considered a positive addiction for >>>> > > > > most of those who find it addicting at all. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > I believe it triggers a similar reward system at the >>>> > > > > > synaptic level that drugs do. At least that is how I >>>> > > > > > experience it. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > I have no objection to this as long as you make it clear >>>> > > > > it's your experience. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > That was how it was first pitched in the West, as a >>>> > > > > > drug-free high. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > By the TMO? >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > > Of course, when you cite cocaine addiction as if it were >>>> > > > > > > similar to "addiction" to TM, your intention to load >>>> > > > > > > your argument becomes obvious. >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > We were discussing it in the context of all sorts of things >>>> > > > > > people can be addicted to including gambling. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Also a negative addiction. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > And there >>>> > > > > > are many valid distinctions to draw between them. >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > But my focus was just on the brain reward system aspect. >>>> > > > > > With meditation it is so high that it can lead to people >>>> > > > > > being satisfied just meditating. That was Guru Dev's life >>>> > > > > > before he hit the Shankaracharya lottery right? And he is >>>> > > > > > far from the only one. It was how I lived at sidhaland. >>>> > > > > > We switched the balance there from meditating for activity >>>> > > > > > to just acting as much as we had to to get back to program. >>>> > > > > > It was all Maharishi directed and it went on for 3 years >>>> > > > > > for me. So I am not overstating the case of how absorbed >>>> > > > > > you can get with these euphoric states of mind. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > In a Siddhaland-type context, sure. But you didn't specify >>>> > > > > that to begin with. It sounded as though you were speaking >>>> > > > > generally. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > Do you think I have an agenda to turn people off of >>>> > > > > > practicing TM? I don't. Emily can figure out for herself >>>> > > > > > if TM is for her. But here I have a chance to express what >>>> > > > > > I really think about it outside the PR angle that some >>>> > > > > > person might get turned off to TM by me being honest about >>>> > > > > > my POV on meditation. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > Yeah, I don't think this covers the comparison with cocaine >>>> > > > > and gambling. That goes beyond just being honest about your >>>> > > > > own POV. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > It is a fascinating area for me and the jury is not in about >>>> > > > > > any of it. >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > I have come to believe that certain experiences of heightened >>>> > > > > > states of bliss are not productive. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > For you. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > I am trying to understand how it was so easy for me to >>>> > > > > > drop out of the sidhis and never want to do them again. >>>> > > > > > I got intense pleasure from the sidhis. But now that >>>> > > > > > kind of experience has zero appeal. How can this be if >>>> > > > > > it was the highest experience of my life? The reason is >>>> > > > > > that now I get my inner states of joy from achievements >>>> > > > > > and creative expression. I have switched my source of >>>> > > > > > similar brain states of peak experiences. I am no longer >>>> > > > > > attracted to states of content free pleasure from any >>>> > > > > > source. >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > One might ask whether it's possible that your stint with >>>> > > > > the TM-Sidhis increased your capacity to get "inner states >>>> > > > > of joy from achievements and creative expression." >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > But your post balances out my view quite nicely for people who >>>> > > > > > are >>>> > > evaluating if they should try TM here. I don't have a problem with what >>>> > > you brought out. >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > - In [email protected], "authfriend" >>>> > > > > > > > <authfriend@> >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "curtisdeltablues" >>>> > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: >>>> > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "emilymae.reyn" >>>> > > <emilymae.reyn@> wrote: >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > Does meditation work to balance out the chemical makeup >>>> > > of >>>> > > > > > > > > > > one's physiology? Does it release our natural feel good >>>> > > > > > > > > > > chemicals within the body? Or, maintain balanced levels >>>> > > > > > > > > > > of serotonin, dopamine, etc. >>>> > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > My experience with TM meditation and its associated >>>> > > practices >>>> > > > > > > > > > is that it is a way to hijack our usual brain reward >>>> > > system >>>> > > > > > > > > > for achievement in our lives. >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > Maybe this should say, "...it is a way to hijack my usual >>>> > > > > > > > > brain reward system for achievement in my life," since this >>>> > > > > > > > > is your personal experience. >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > I believe your brain and mine are similar in this regard. >>>> > > > > > > > If you transcend into what Maharishi called bliss >>>> > > > > > > > consciousness you are giving your brain such a high >>>> > > > > > > > reward it forgets everything else. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > During meditation, yes. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > This is just Maharishi's teaching. But you raise an >>>> > > > > > > > interesting point that perhaps there is a difference >>>> > > > > > > > between the kind of brain that would go into a sidhaland >>>> > > > > > > > or Purusha and someone who has integrated TM into their >>>> > > > > > > > life the way you have. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > Yes, "perhaps" there is, TM being for householders and >>>> > > > > > > all. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > And this was Maharishi's stated goal, fulfillment >>>> > > > > > > > > > divorced >>>> > > > > > > > > > from achievement. >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > When did he say this? Do you have a quote? Was this one >>>> > > > > > > > > of the "secret teachings" just for teachers? Because I >>>> > > > > > > > > sure don't remember having heard him say it. >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > It is a core part of his message I don't know how you >>>> > > > > > > > missed it. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > Yeah, I don't think so, Curtis. Certainly I didn't hear >>>> > > > > > > it during *my* three days' checking, and I never heard it >>>> > > > > > > subsequently, either. I think you must be misinterpreting >>>> > > > > > > something, or expressing it badly. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > We go to bliss consciousness and establish ourselves in >>>> > > > > > > > that to give us complete fulfillment which bypasses the >>>> > > > > > > > whole action for achievement for fulfillment cycle. It is >>>> > > > > > > > actually taught in 3 days checking. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > You didn't include "action" in what you said above. With >>>> > > > > > > "action," you might invoke "Do less and accomplish more/ >>>> > > > > > > Do nothing and accomplish everything" to make your point. >>>> > > > > > > But what you said to start with sounds as if you meant >>>> > > > > > > there was no *accomplishment* involved. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > And then there's the old "200 percent of life," and the >>>> > > > > > > idea that you don't meditate for the sake of meditation >>>> > > > > > > but for fulfillment *in activity*. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > The impression you've been conveying is that you just >>>> > > > > > > sit around in bliss rather than accomplishing anything. >>>> > > > > > > But that would not be an accurate picture of Maharishi's >>>> > > > > > > teaching (at least not his teaching to the Great TM >>>> > > > > > > Unwashed). >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > Where I differ with his teaching is that he thinks this >>>> > > > > > > > automatically makes people better at and more dynamic >>>> > > > > > > > in activity and I don't. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > Well, reasonable people could disagree on this point. >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > Anybody else remember Maharishi saying this was his goal? >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > If you keep mediating you cultivate the mind to trigger >>>> > > > > > > > > > highly pleasurable states. It becomes very addictive. >>>> > > > > > > > > > Many meditators show signs of extreme irritation if they >>>> > > > > > > > > > miss a mediation once they get hooked on it just like >>>> > > > > > > > > > any other addict. >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > How many meditators show this? What percentage would you >>>> > > > > > > > > say? And how have you determined this? >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > I lived with thousands of meditators while in the movement. >>>> > > > > > > > I have seen many meditators reactions to missing meditation. >>>> > > > > > > > Discussed many with my own TM students. I hav >>>> >>> >>> > > >
