--- In [email protected], "vashtirama" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To me, a lot of 'exotic' dancing is theatre. Nobody worries about
the self-esteem of an actor who plays socially unacceptable
characters, even though s/he may be typecast for years after--IOW, be
seen by the  general public as being the character s/he played. A
healthy woman 
> showing her body, whether paid for it or not, knows she's more than 
> her body and more than what others think of her body.

Yes. Good points. And what dancers do is not just taking off their
clothes. (I think more than 2/3s of clubs are topless only -- thus 
in such clubs they only take off what is common on 
European beaches -- and for practical matter, most US beaches. Are
"beach" girls exploited? ) A larger part of what the dancers do, i
believe, is provide some conversation and company. Some laughs. 


> My greatest concern is that the most money girls are able to make is 
> by doing sexwork. 

For 20 somethings, especially still in college, I am sure they do not
have jobs opportunities with similar pay. But baseball players and
models don't either (a metaphor for all jobs that are based on -- to a
degree -- age, physical work, physical attributes.) Do you have equal
concern for baseball players? Are they exploited?  


> The assumption is that the great pay is a stepping 
> stone for those who don't want to be doing it their whole life--just 
> so that she can get out of debt, or finish college, or pay for a 
> child's private school or medical treatments. I sure hope the
college girls I knew who made money this way went on to make more
money based  on their college degree. 

Yes, I think its a stepping stone for many, but a trap for some. Some
may gget addicted to the easy money, the lifestyle, the ease of it
all. And not focus on a "future" career.

> It is damning of our society if it's the 
> easiest way for women to make good money, 

I'm not sure I buy that. The baseball player example and all. Also
lots of late teens and 20ish people do hard construction work for a
while, or painting houses, etc. Its the best money, and often good
money, they can find at the time. And can build a foundation for their
future career moves. Is it damning of society that a 22 yr old guy's
best money can be made in construction and not as a financial analyst
-- for which he has not yet finished his degree.?

>  we still don't have 
> equal pay for equal work in most other areas. 

I am not sure I can buy that either.

In professional level corporate jobs, there is no gender salary
discrimination. Corporate compensation and bonus packages may be wierd
 unbalanced and unfair -- relative to ones contribution - but in my
experience and observations, gender salary differences do not exist on
the management level. Professional corporate woman don't sit around
and complain about salary discrimination. 

For blue collar, retail and and clerical jobs, when studies properly
control for age, years of experience, education, etc, there appears to
be little gender salary discrimination. And some such jobs are dirtier
and physically harder than others. More men gravitate to  them. Woman
can take such jobs too adnget equal pay. But if they choose cushier
inside desk jobs, they may not get the same pay if lots of others want
the same jobs. Wage rates accomodate supply and demand. If few people
want to do work that is in high demand by employers, the latter will
offer higher wages to attract sufficient workers. If there are to many
applicants for other jobs than are needed, wages will fall.

> But to me, the real 
> problem then is not sex, but that women aren't paid enough for other 
> kinds of work. 

Which is generally an issue of education. Which often is an issue of
time and money. Dancing can help some bridge the gap.

> I haven't heard of ex-sexworkers leaving their careers as lawyers, 
> doctors, governors, etc, because they miss the easy cash of sexwork.

I would not recommend dancing for any girl. But if they choose it, I
am not going to look down on them, or stigmatize them. All power to
them if they can make some good money and then move onto a more
professional career. 


> 
> --- In [email protected], akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Hi Vashi, 
> > 
> > Great to have you back. We have missed you!
> > 
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], "vashtirama" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > akasha, you'd be great in an upper-level feminist studies 
> seminar. 
> > 
> > Gosh, not the graduate seminar? :)  
> > 
> > > Groups of feminist sex workers have brought up most if not all of 
> > > your points; so have lesbians who have their own exotic dancer 
> clubs, 
> > > publish x-rated magazines for the lesbian community, informed by 
> > > lesbian feminist theory.
> > 
> > Yes, I have read some, trying to find exploitation. I have heard the
> > pro arguments. And passed on many in my post. I have yet to read a
> > compelling case for exploitation. 
> > 
> > And I know a few dancers. Girl next door types, smart, vivacious,
> > college girls. In talking to them about their jobs, there is not 
> much
> > hint of exploitation. They are in control, make good money, are
> > pursuing their  professional careers via the funding and flexible 
> time
> > this short term club work provides. And seem quite comfortable with
> > themselves, well balanced, flexible, creative. Not that you need to 
> be
> > a dancer to obtain such, but from what i can see and get to in
> > conversations, it has helped them relate to people better, improved
> > their conversation and socializing skills, help them oversome social
> > shyness in one case, and made them very comfortable in their own
> > skins. They have lost prior hang-ups and obsessions with looks.  
> > 
> > Some girls I am sure don't have the best of experiences as dancers.
> > But how were they prior to becoming a dancer?





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